#toby what are you saying about asgore toby toby come back here---

[grillbyz]

still thinking about the. asgore's winter alarm clock dialogue like. If they ever finish this (please) imagine waking up one day to asgore divorced-reemurr saying "he was... my rudolph" ab some guy he used to know like

"I was... his Santa. He was... my Rudolph." With those sprites. like. Oh he was yours and you were his, huh. Sir. Sir--

hello, sir, what was that about the mistletoe--

Oh so. he uses the same nickname your ex-wife used for you. Is that so. The very same huh---

Oh so you wanted to show him the sun huh. You wanted to hold his hand and bring him to the surface and show him the beauty of the sun didn't you

[under-lore]

First impressions on the new Asriel letter

So...

It seems we finally have some new Chara content in 2024 !

At the end of the latest newsletter, Toby shared one more letter with us, which contained some very interesting things.

Let's try and dissect it a bit.

First, to start with the obvious, this is a letter written by Asriel about Chara. We can see this from such as things as :

Using the term "best friend"

But also because 9 is already a number associated with Chara.

Of course, it is present with them rather strongly during the genocide route. Such as during its ending, but also through things like the statistics given to some items associated with them in the route.

The same can also be said for Narrator Chara too. Such as how new special dialogue appears from the narrator if one were to attempt to talk to Asgore precisely 9 times.

The idea that it would be their favorite number thus comes fairly naturally.

Next, the few following lines rationalise this association, all the while phrasing it in a way that reminds of their speech at the end of the genocide route.

Finally, we have a few more minor implications.

Asriel & Chara with flowers together may call back to this image :

But it was also a very old concept, that could be found way sooner in Toby's concept arts for the game.

While Chara's "creepy faces" are openly mentioned in-game.

The friend is also refered to as "they", which may be noteworthy.

As for laughs...

The letter ends with

...But alright, what can we learn from it ?

Quite a few things, actually.

First, obviously, Chara's favorite number being 9 feels more like confirming some trivia or association that had been noticed by fans a long time ago than actual true new information.

But it isn't the only noteworthy thing in this letter.

Here are some lines that i had cut earlier on :

The last few lines feel somewhat unprompted from that initial context. But they may have secondary meanings.

First, they may be used to indirectly refer to a type of numbness brought upon by killing mentioned by Sans in his neutral judgments.

However, while that hint may have been intentional on Toby's part, it surely wasn't the main thing that the "in-world" Asriel who wrote this letter was trying to suggest.

The main "in-world" intended meaning of this section was far more likely refering to this :

While Chara did not ever tell Asriel exactly what happened in their past, Asriel seems to believe that the humans they had known did not make a good impression on Chara. Suggesting that they may have been abused or even have come to the mountain to disappear because of them. Regardless, this was all something that had worried Asriel regarding his best friend.

Of course, in the original game, those things remained mostly implicit or speculative. Asriel did not know these things for certain. And neither did we.

But bringing it back up today after so many years certainly feels like a very interesting choice on Toby's part...

Of course, this is all still from Asriel's point of view, which is limited. But metatextually, this is saying more than it looks.

Asriel associating Chara's favorite number the idea that with it, "Nothing can hurt you anymore" is a much more direct way of saying that he believes Chara was hurt by humans in their past than we'd seen before.

Again. This content comes from Undertale's 9th anniversary. It was pretty much Toby's one special occasion to show us content about Chara again. Which he actually did with this letter.

He only disposed of a limited number of characters or lines to either tell us something new about them, or give more precision/information about something which he believed was important for us to see.

From the metatextual context of asking "What was Toby trying to do by showing us this letter ?", him choosing to give more detail on Asriel's belief that Chara may have been abused of all things would serve no other purpose than to volontarily insist on pushing forward his line of reasoning to the fandom.

This suggests that Toby is very likely trying to tell us that Asriel is at least largely correct, and thus that the idea of Chara having been hurt in some form by the humans in their village is now significantly more likely.

Indeed, this had been an issue in some parts of the fandom. While that interpretation had been largely popular amongst most of it for a long time, there had been some voices calling out to the lack of clean proper evidence pointing to that which weren't somewhat speculative. So this seems a lot like Toby attempting to point us in the right direction. Seems like the simplest answer may be the right one, Occam's razor strikes again.

A new questions also now asks itself : Is this meant to suggest that this was Chara's motivation for power ?

Having power, so you are no longer weak ?

Not being weak, so you can no longer be hurt ?

A way of feeling "in control" ?

There were already some implication of Chara disliking to show weakness to others in the past. This would be coherent with those.

In such case, the genocide route may be a macabre recontextualisation of this original motive on Chara's part.

It might also be made relevant in the context of Chara's plan, though that deserves its own future post.

Besides, Asriel saying this highlights how much he cares about Chara. Which is always nice to see.

As a side note :

Between the demo and the final version of the game, the flavor text for the faded ribbon was changed from a regular one to one which raised a few eyebrows :

While some people had tried to use this line as evidence of Chara having been abused, many other voices had (fairly rightfully) pointed out that this piece of "evidence" was quite fragile, due to things like other interpretations of it being just as plausible, the fact that it specifies " 'monsters' won't hit you as hard" which wouldn't fit Chara all that much, or simply the lack of other similar implications elsewhere in the game.

Now that we do have such implications, this argument, whilst still a bit of a long shot, is at least not quite as far fetched as it used to be anymore. The item is a thing which gives you DEF (increases your numbers), and prevents you from being hurt.

We are not quite done yet, though :

These lines feel like they also have meaning.

Once again, there is an indirect reference to the genocide route, with 99 being the maximum value for things like HP, or the next required EXP to gain LOVE. When you have them, you cannot get any more. It is the absolute.

However, there seems to be another strange connection to make here.

What is the opposite of a so called "good memory" ?

The bad memory is an item obtained from the memory head amalgamate.

It feels noteworthy as it, along with the "Last dream", are the two items in the game who's effects are theorised to have something to do with NarraChara in the way they are presented/work. (Suggesting that the memory/dream may come at least partially from Chara.)

For a reminder, the bad memory is a item that actually decreases HP by 1. Unless it is eaten on the brink of death, in which cases it restores all HP instead. Bringing it to the "highest number".

On top of that, this item also had a strange specificity to it :

It is impossible to drop it.

With this additional context, one may draw parallels between the Bad memory item's effects and what Asriel is saying, only in a reversed way, and applied to Chara.

In the same manner as previously. The previously existing theories trying to tie the bad memory to Chara now find themselves being rendered more plausible. In fact, given that these lines directly follow the previous ones, you may even associate them to make the argument that the memories could be of Chara's past on the surface hypothetically. Though that would likely be stretching it.

Also :

39 left.

Pretty impressive, the way every last line in this letter can be read as a genocide route reference one way or another.

And... the code of the page describe the contents of the page as "Here's a letter".

This is also the wording used in the lines with which Toby introduces us the letter.

This wording of this feels very significant considering who the letter is talking about...

So i suppose that makes for even more NarraChara fuel to have Toby writing down such things.

For one last thought, those couple lines.

If one were to follow a certain interpretation of things such as "Mr Dad Guy", the "future of humans and monsters", and Chara's relationship with the concept of "efficiency" & "usefullness", then they might be readable as an allegory for pre-death Chara's view on their role within monsterkind & one of their motivations regarding their plan. (along with their hate of humanity).

And this odd insistance on the term "happy" throughought the message..Is there a chance it could be refering to those secret lines, stored within the game's code in the echo flower room number #9999 ?

Some of the things mentioned in this post are somewhat stretchy admittedly. I am not yet certain of which ones of these would i actually argue for and which are only a product of first impression brainstorming.

Nevertheless. There are many many new ideas to explore regarding Chara now.

Thanks, Toby !

[mysteriousbp]

What would the Second Chance Au timeline look like from when Chara fell to when the the barrier broke

Okay then... Here's the timeline.

I know it's a very weird timeline with the children falling so close to Chara's death and all. But I'm just working with the weird information that Undertale gives us. 

I know that the game kind of implies that Chara's death happened 100 or something years before Undertale. But there are things like Dogamy and Dogaressa talking about being No. 2 Nuzzle Champs of 98.

Meanwhile, Asgore has the trophy for being the number 1 Nose-Nuzzle in 98.

The thing is that Dogamy and Dogaressa aren't boss monsters, so they can't live forever. And it's never implied that normal monsters age differently from humans. So it can't have been 100+ years since Chara's death. But if you say that Asgore's trophy is from 1998 while Dogamy and Dogaressa got second in 2098... That feels like more FNAF lore BS than anything that Toby would write. If they were supposed to be different events, Toby would have made that obvious.

But then there's also Alphys, which people agree that she's in her 20/30's.

But it's implied that Alphys was around when Toriel left because she knows which golden flower was the first one to grow in Asgore's garden from the surface before Toriel left.

And people agree that Undyne is around the same age as Alphys. And it's hinted with Undyne's username that she was born in 91.

If Alphys and Undyne are supposed to be around the same age and Alphys was around to know about the first golden flower before Toriel left, then Undyne has to be born in 1991.

Undertale timeline just kind of contradicts itself. So I'm doing my best with what I got.

And now for a second part.

Then why had no other humans fallen before?

My best way to explain it is that it is just something that just never happened.

It's like how in 1879 a daughter and her father found cave paintings in a cave near their home. Despite being in that cave for thousands of years, it was only in 1879 that there were people that found it. It just happened that no one else went to that cave before. That's my explanation.

If you are wondering about the legend that everyone goes to that mountain and never comes back. In my AU, it's just a "lengend" for Frisk, because they don't fully know how to use that word. Because there's no way that this is supposed to be an actual legend in the universe and only having 8 kids falling underground. There would be so many explorers trying to prove that the legend is wrong. Asgore would have the 7 souls in less than a year if that was a real legend between humans.

[infernal-heart]

Cannot stop thinking about your post on the similarities between the judgement hall and the school. I was wondering if you could elaborate on more thoughts on that? Or I guess, who do you think would be the ‘judge’ in deltarune?

I absolutely can elaborate, yeah. Beyond the birds that I mentioned in the original post, the school in the afternoon specifically is, like the judgement hall, quiet. It’s almost eerily so. You and Susie are alone in this place, and I think it nails the atmosphere really well. Which is to say, it recontextualizes the same atmosphere we know (walking up to Sans in the judgement hall in UT, getting the speech about LV and EXP. But of course, more memorably, the Bad Time quote) aka one of relative dread, to one that is overtly… peaceful.

Don’t get me wrong, I still think it’s eerie. Any space alone is, but after all of Chapter 1, you’re left alone in this near-silent space. But it isn’t oppressive. It isn’t angry, or dangerous. It’s just… lonely. Isolated.

Uncanny is the word I’m looking for. Of course, devoid of the context of the UT Judgement Hall, I think a lot of the power of the atmosphere is lost. But with that context, with the foreknowledge of such a pivotal place in the story of that game, one naturally asks oneself: “What’s the connection here? Why is this place calling my mind back to the judgement hall?”.

Of course, I can’t definitively explain that because I’m not Toby, but I can guess. The end of the chapter(s) is itself important story moments, points of downtime. And, crucially, moments where important things happen. While comparing the story of DT and UT is probably meaningless, I think it bears some weight that right after you are in an environment eerily and intentionally similar to Judgement Hall, you are given the game’s first look into a shakeup of the traditional rules or formula. In UT, Asgore breaks your mercy button. In DT, the end of Chapter 1 shows us the first clear indication that something is awry between Kris and the Soul. Something to consider.

Backpedaling for a moment, the comparison between the school and the judgement hall isn’t just, y’know, musical or audio-based: this environment does literally look like the judgement hall. The yellow, checkered flooring, the light coming in through the windows. It’s very, very reminiscent, and as I’ve said many times at this point, Toby clearly meant this.

(Also, point of intrigue that is not entirely relevant to this discussion, but is interesting: the Dark World closet door looks suspiciously similar to a number of doors in the True Lab)

But I digress.

As for who I think a “judge” might be…

I think if there were one mechanically, we’d probably have to wait until near the end of DT as a whole to see. Given Sans/the Judgement Hall’s placement in undertale, if there were an analog to that in DT, we probably aren’t far enough along in the story to have seen them.

However.

I think that the Secret Bosses (Jevil and Spamton so far) serve a similar purpose as Sans narratively in DT that he did in UT.

Sans was written to be a very rounded character. He was never important, and that was the point: he’s a watcher, really. A judge. He takes the sum of what you’ve done, and displays it to you in a succinct package, both during the Judgement Hall sequence and the post-neutral run phone calls. He serves as almost a summary to the player, an in-universe perspective on what your actions mean for others. And, of course, his role as a Judge (being almost reactive to your own as player) takes on a new meaning in the no-mercy/kill everything run, being your final challenge before world domination, and universal destruction. He puts up a good fight, as we all know. But he isn’t doing it because he wants to kill you: he knows he doesn’t truly have that power. As Sans says himself, he is trying to make you bored. Stopping you by being such an inconvenience that you, the player, will give up. That is to say, he knows more than most of the cast either lets on (Papyrus may have a similar level of timeline-knowledge, I don’t know enough about it to say for sure) or genuinely is aware of.

That’s the key point of similarity: Sans serves the role of somebody (other than Flowey, the main villain) who, in some part, understands your actions and your agency. He’s somebody to bounce off of, I think.

And this is reflected in the secret bosses, most obviously in Spamton. He is, in the end, the single character we have met in DT who understands Kris and their relationship with the Soul (aside from MAYBE Noelle in Snowgrave but. It’s just speculation at that point I think). He is himself a puppet, and recognizes Kris as a kindred spirit, somebody bound to their strings as he is. Both the bosses, him and Jevil, share one attribute with eachother: amongst other things, they seek or believe themselves to be “Free”. Jevil believes he is the only one outside the cage, that he can do anything he wishes. Spamton yearns for freedom, to be cut from his strings and let loose. He wants your Soul because he knows it can set him free from his strings.

All of that is to prove what I said before: that in UT, Sans, and in DT, Jevil and Spamton, are almost… reflections of the player. I hesitate to use the word foils, but I think one could make a case for it.

All of that aside, if I had to guess, from our current list of characters, who a “Judge” might be?

My inclination is to say Susie. I think it would be impactful writing-wise to have her, a character Kris actively works at being friends with during chapter 1 and 2, end up being a force of karmic confrontation in regards to the actions of the player.

But if we’re thinking about this in terms of Sans’ role in UT, the “judge” character probably won’t be particularly central to the plot, and Susie absolutely is. Maybe Asriel? As a character established in his UT incarnation to have an understanding of timeline malarkey, and as the closest thing to a peer within that game to the player, he could provide a good way of being that in-universe perspective of karma that Sans was in UT.

I’m also somewhat apprehensive about him, though, given how important he is to Kris, and how important him coming to visit from college will/would be.

Again, I don’t think any Judge character (if we’re going off of a similar framework as Sans) will be somebody crucial to the story.

But I could be wrong. Ralsei presents a compelling case, I think, because he also knows something is up with Kris and the soul. We see both in Chapter 1 and Chapter 2, each time we (the player) shift perspectives from Kris to Susie, we return to Kris just as Ralsei finishes talking with them. It’s suspicious. It’s intriguing. It’s never touched upon, never mentioned at all, but it is an element of the story that I think will be important going forward. If anybody is to confront the Soul, other than Kris, I think it will be Ralsei, or maybe some plan put in motion by Ralsei.

Not that I think Ralsei is, like, oooh an evil mastermind and all that like some theories do. But he’s… smart. Smarter than he lets on. And he absolutely knows more than he gives willingly. (As a side note, even before thinking about him in this capacity, on my first Chapter 2 playthrough, I got weird vibes from Ralsei. The changed sprite, and a few instances of changed demeanor seemed… off, to me. Something has absolutely changed about him between chapters).

I’ll leave this post off with one more thing that I’m sure you’re well aware of at this point:

The Bunker.

The only other location with the sound of birds from the Judgement hall.

The only other specific location with a direct audio link to Undertale.

And the one place, I’d say, most associated with Gaster in the Deltarune world.

It’s this. This sort of thing, this kind of mystery, that I love Deltarune (and Undertale) for.

Why are the same birds out here, and (to my knowledge), nowhere else but the school?

Why is Gaster’s Entry 17 emanating, like a dying cry, from behind the closed doors, and beneath the earth?

Why does the sound of the birds cut out when you approach the bunker, leaving you in total silence but for the ragged memory of something you were never supposed to see?

That’s the question, I suppose. And the questions that I love to think about in UT and DT.

Gods, I love the mysteries in these games.

[andreabandrea]

migospel and negative man

this is going to be a bit of a disorganized post, but i was rereading my old "chara did not abuse asriel" post, and I thought of something interesting. none of this is 'new' information or a new theory-- it only supports a point in an essay I wrote years ago. but the ramble will talk about a cool enemy in mother 3, so.

in my original post about Chara, in the section where I made the point that Chara "laughing off" Asgore's poisoning was likely unhappy/nervous laughter as opposed to taking actual joy in his pain, I bring up a theory created by passivechara on tumblr.

the Hard Mode only monster Migospel "loves to laugh" when around other monsters, but becomes sad and talks about hiding their pain when alone. Migospel literally mimes Chara in this way. (the name 'migospel' likely drives from 'mime' and 'gospel', so the 'gospel' part may refer to 'truth'-- aka, Migospel miming the truth about Chara).

if we believe in the narrator Chara theory, then a monster reacting to Chara isn't even unprecedented-- napstablook responds directly to the narrator's comment about their lack of humor.

now, I would need to build this up more in a 'proper' analysis post, but since I'm just rambling on my blog, let's just accept that toby fox was majorly influenced by earthbound and the mother series as a whole. papyrus's starman costume, naming the player, flowey's "cry out into the darkness" line, and more.

bear with me, but I'm going to talk about the mother series and link this back to undertale.

so in mother 3, there's a one-time only enemy you encounter called 'Negative Man'.

negative man is a joke enemy of sorts. he can do a very weak attack, but otherwise, he just says a sad line and wastes his turn. although his stats are miniscule- making him the weakest monster in the game- his HP is enormous, making his fight a bit of a chore.

people sometimes speculate why negative man is in the game. the concept of a drawn-out and irritating battle with no real challenge is definitely a mother series joke, and some people believe he's just there to add another enemy to your checklist of monsters to find and defeat if you want to 100% the game.

I think, though, that there's another purpose to Negative Man. And here we're going to get into Mother 3 spoilers so, uh. if you haven't played a game that's nearly 20 years old, then play it now and come back to this later.

...

okay? moving on.

so anyway, the interesting thing about negative man is that the music that plays when you're fighting him is 'Strong One', the same boss track that's used when you fight the Masked Man. this could just be a joke-- Negative Man is not 'strong' in any way, and the intentional complete lack of rhythm in 'Strong One' makes performing timed attacks to the beat very difficult, dragging the boss battle on more.

however, think about what's happening in the fight. you and your party are beating this creature to death who's crying and miserable, who has no will to fight, who isn't attacking (or can barely hurt you when he tries to attack), and so on. why are you doing it? because you have to. maybe negative man is just in your way, maybe you just want to fight him to 100% the game. regardless, this monster isn't fun to fight. the only reason you would intentionally fight him is because you have to.

you're probably thinking of sans's boss fight, where despite being the "weakest monster in the game" with only 1 attack and 1 defense, he has an extremely difficult and prolonged boss battle. i think that negative man could have potentially influenced toby in this way, too! but this isn't about mr. undertale himself.

now, there's another notable fight in mother 3 like this-- but the roles are reversed.

in the final battle of the game against the Masked Man (with whom the 'Strong One' theme is associated), lucas's party can't be used. lucas has just learned a devastating truth about the Masked Man's identity, and it's rendered him completely unable to fight. Lucas is likely miserable in this scene, and all he can do is pass turns while the Masked Man attacks him relentlessly-- not because he enjoys it, but because- due to his reprogramming- he has to. does that sound familiar?

all this to say-- the Negative Man enemy is a reflective of Lucas, and shows insight into his emotional state. the unwillingness to attack due to a sense of misery and the 'strong one' track associated with the masked man being used support this theory.

it's notable that Negative Man is, again, an enemy you can only encounter once. Negative Man isn't a prominent part of Mother 3.

this is to say-- what does this have to do with Undertale?

if we can accept the theory that the Negative Man, as a random rare enemy, could be a parallel to Lucas and reveal something about his emotional state (his misery in having to fight his own brother, the Masked Man), and if we accept that the Mother series was very influential over Toby Fox-- then it becomes even easier than before to accept the theory that Migospel is reflective of Chara and their emotions.

Migospel is only encountered in the unfinished 'hard mode' of undertale, again-- but Negative Man is only encountered once in mother 3. thus, even though Migospel doesn't have as much 'canonicity' as any other monster in the game, I think that there can be relevance to their inclusion.

this is to say-- as passivechara suggested (checks date) 7 years ago, I really do think that Migospel is more evidence that Chara isn't an evil sadistic monster when you consider the influence that the mother series had on toby.

[mythicaldemigoddess-of-deltarune]

Hazbinrune AU: Chara Wants To Keep Vark...(2024)

-------

[Note: I plan to use this drawing as Cover for a Future Chapter over at Quotev, so it will be for both here and over there. also just in case some of the words that Chara and Toriel are saying are a bit hard to read, please make sure to click on the drawing to make it bigger. ]

Credit for Hazbin Hotel & Helluva Boss goes to Vivienne “Vivziepop” Medrano

Credit for Undertale goes to Toby Fox

-----------------------

[Note-2: in case some might not be able to read the very small letters still, here is what Toriel is saying after telling Chara "No" about keeping Vark…" *sigh* Fine, we may keep him…at least for now, but if someone comes looking for him, we must return him. I can see you love this…Vark, but you must not put up a fight when he must go back to his family.".........I had to edit this in, in case that might be a bit too small even if the drawing is made bigger by clicking on it. but I hope some can still read those words even if they are a bit smaller than the other words that Toriel and Chara were saying to each other in this drawing.]

Chara's Sinner form is a little deer, and Toriel's Sinner form is a mix of what she originally looked like when she was alive, but also one of those demons that look like a goats with a candle on their head.

oh right, they are called Baphomet,

this would be a Bapho-Toriel, so yeah her Sinner form is a Baphomet which would be linked to why she ends up being a mix of her original goat form but a Baphomet version of it.

like depending on what forms Toriel, Asgore, Undyne, Alphys and Mettaton takes when they end up in Hell in a Crossover AU that has Undertale, Deltarune, Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss in it...

their forms will be a mix of their original forms, but also be a hybrid version that will be a mix of what type of sin they had in their life when they were just mortal monsters living on Earth.

and it would be likely that both Asgore and Toriel would become Sinner Baphomets.

and the reasons why Asgore, Toriel, Undyne, Alphys and Mettaton would end up be in Hell after the whole Geno Route...

might have to do with the Human Children, while in a True Pacifist Ending, those Human Children may have come back to life, because after Frisk wakes up after saving everyone from Asriel, you can go back to the basement and see that the coffins are all open.

meaning that the human souls went back into the bodies after the barrier was broken.

and if most monsters didn't end up trapped in the underground, then some of them could of married some humans much later on, and well zinged with humans if we think of it like Hotel Transylvania.

and some who were originally born human but have a human & monster parent, might go through some changes like how Dennis does in Hotel Transylvania 2.

Mettaton might end up becoming a hybrid version of his robot body, and a Incubus, having to do with his love and lust to be famous, like it being a mix of both a positive and negative.

Undyne wouldn't look much different from when she was alive, but her Sinner form will have her good eye have those swirls like what Chaz and Striker has, and she will end up having a shark tail in her Sinner Demon form.

still being a mix of her original form of course.

Alphys would likely not look all that different, still looking the same but she would still get a hybrid version of her original form on how she looked when she was alive, that will be translated into her Sinner Demon form.

Papyrus would of originally been send to Heaven, but chose to go and be where Sans is...

Papyrus never really kills the Player or Frisk in the game, he only damages them and the Player enough where we can no longer fight and sends us to the Shed.

Papyrus is a precious cinnamon roll who is too pure for both this world as well as Heaven and Hell, he must be protected.

I don't think Valentino's powers could work on Papyrus.

and even if Angel did hit on Papyrus, he would give off that adorkablee sweet cinnamon roll side...

so there is the Cinnamon Rolls Papyrus and Niffty, one that might seem dangerous but is really adorkable sweetheart, and another one is a cinnamon roll that would match the song "Crazy Chicks" by Ken Ashcorp. I like that song. :)

so yeah, Niffty does seem to match the song "Crazy Chicks"...

I'm still going to Fam her with Angel, and possibly Husk.

yeah him being protective her and how he made Husk look after her, makes me view Angel being like a Dad to Niffty, and to me, he still looked like he was being a bit like Helicopter Dad.

in a Poly-Ship that is also a Crossover, that is Blitzhusk with Angel Dust....they would be like Niffty's Three Dads.

Blitzwing from TFA acting like a Helicopter Dad to Niffty as well, would be interesting in a Crossover.

and yeah using the words "I Fam It" when it comes to Angel & Niffty, is better to use so it doesn't get confused for the whole romantic ships, which is why you never use "I ship it" on non-romantic ships or even call it a ship, it should still be a unspoken rule and should only be pointed out some times.

if Blitzwing, Angel and Husk did end up in a Poly-Ship together, even if Angel might stay in the Friend Zone and a Poly-Ship might not really happen...

the ship names for them would still be Blitzhusk, but also adding Huskdust but also the ship name of Blitzwing x Angel with their Poly-Ship name...

like Blitzdust along with whatever poly-ship name that might fit.

not sure if Angelblitzhusk would fit....maybe Dustblitzhusk

or maybe Angeblitzhusk...? or just let it be just their current ship names for now, which would be Blitzhusk, Huskdust and Blitzdust.

if Sari could tease Angel along with the help of Molly and Cherri, they would sing a parody version of "I wont say I'm in love"...

with Sari singing the part "who ya think your kidding, he's the Earth and the Well Of All Sparks to you." XD

I think I and some fans will possibly freak out if it turns out Huskdust is gonna be canon in the future, they do seem to be doing better and it's good that in the show, that Huskdust is starting out in the friend zone and being platonic and can work up at some point to romantic.

and yeah as weird as it might sound, the different ways Valentino speaks in the episode where Vox finds out that Alastor had returned after being gone for 7 years, makes me wonder if Valentino has a bit of a split personality.

and well if they do have pills to deal with split personalities, even for the semi type ones, Val could of stop taking his at some point.

we get like possibly three different sides of Val that is shown, and for all we know if it were true, the ones who knows about him having split personalities would be Vox and Velvette.

I mean I can't be the only one who notice how his accent seem to change in that one episode, which made that weird idea pop into my head, that he might have a slight split personality, and there being like more than just two, but one of them is the most dominant.

and well I think normally, one's accent changing between one and the other, wouldn't have to do with a split personality, but when it comes to Valentino, I can't help but wonder if he might actually have split personalities.

one being Jealous and Aggravated Val, the other being Sweet and Loving Val, and the other being Sassy but Harsh Val.

I guess each side of him could go by "Jealous-Val", "Sweet-Val" and "Harsh-Val"...

and well if it did turn out to be true, his eyes could change color depending on what personality comes out, which is of course I remember I had used that idea before, and well there was a friend who I think ended up using the same but for different ideas, but I think the whole different split personalities being used and shown through the different color of eyes, can be a multi-fan use thing and being for different ideas for anyone and it depends on what type and how many split personalities there are.

the color change to Val's eyes wouldn't be notice, because he wears his glasses that also possibly keep him from going crazy when in front of bright light...

like normal and dominate Val, will have his normal eye color, while his other personalities will have Jealous-Val's eyes go Green, Sweet-Val's eyes going into a type of Light Pink and well Harsh-Val could have the same color eyes as Val when he is in his dominate personality.

if Toriel had to troll Valentino, it should be with that song

"Does Your Mama Know?" that was in that first Mamma Mia Movie.

and her Sinner Demon form (which is a hybrid form of her original form) has a candle and fire, so Valentino would be the Moth to the flame that is Toriel.

I think it be funny if Chara could get Vark to keep Valentino from flirting with Toriel, even if Toriel can handle herself.

if Alphys did have a type of hybrid Sinner Demon form that is a mix with what she looked like when she was alive, she could end up having Imp horns, and maybe succubus wings and her tail mostly staying the same but with that spade shape at the end.

in a Crossover with Hazbin Hotel, Helluva Boss, Undertale and Deltarune...

when a Monster dies and does end up in the afterlife, they will be a hybrid version of their monster form where they will either be a Winner Angel or a Sinnner Demon.

and seeing as some of the Monsters (but not all of them) in Undertale are hypocrites when trying to take human children's souls...

they will end up in Pentagram City when Frisk goes down the Geno Route and in theory after they do so, the red soul could end up being taken by Chara and transmigrated to Deltarune's World.

and it could be possible some Sinner forms, would be because of a relation to a parent, so Chara's form being a Deer was because of them supposing to be the child of Alastor.

but the idea I have, he doesn't know and well I can try to work on the idea more when I can.

I hope I can work more on that magic spell I'm working on, maybe I can wait a few hours or so to work more on it.

and I wish I had posted this and the other drawings up much sooner around which would be yesterday now...

but when I went to lay down and ended up going to sleep, I didn't wake back up until around 10 Pm.

but yeah, I will try to get to the whole working on that magic spell when I can, and maybe I can try to write a healing and protection spell when I'm able to...

yeah I'm a Weird Earth Angel Princess, but I wouldn't be me if I didn't have my weird side, and it might be good that I'm not 100% like Other Earth Angels. plus my weird side would be their for me even at times when I feel not great, and have those days when I'm feeling down.

and if I want to try to make a spell that let's me take a type of vacation...that is my choice, even if it will need me to sleep, and well if it works how I want it to, the world I go to, using my Astral-Dream Body...

the time there should only have 9 months pass while in this world, it would only be 3 hours. that is what I want the spell to be program with and it is gonna be a very long spell I think...and there is still some stuff that needs to be added in.

Charlie and Emily standing up to those Eon-Boomers, would make me want to play The Song "That's My Girl" by Fifth Harmony.

and if it weren't for the fact I still believe there were other humans that came before Adam, which would of got the version from the Hazbin Hotel, off his high horse if he found this out...

Adam from Hazbin Hotel, would be technically a Eon-Boomer as well.

and if that version of Adam was real, I would want to punch him really hard in the arm in that court room.

and if he asks what that was for, I would simply say this...

"That is for being a Terrible Dad To Grunkle-Grandpa Cain."

Peepaw Adam should get a strong punch to the arm, as well as the cold hands to face punishment, it is of the will of the Embodiment of Weirdness. XD

I still want to give the Adam from our universe the cold hands to face punishment, and that goes for the Lucifer from our universe as well.

so help me if the Lucifer from Hazbin Hotel turns out to be Cain's Bio-Dad, which would end up making Cain the Older Half-Brother of Charlie.....I'm so gonna tease Charlie's Dad in the next fan-art where not only I will call him by that nickname "Adorkable Apple Goober"

but I will also add the word "Peepaw" which would make him "Adorkable Apple Goober Peepaw"...

but like in this universe no matter which Angel who is suppose to be Cain's Bio-Dad, the Adam from our universe would still be considered his real father even if not by blood, but doesn't mean he doesn't show how much of a Gray-Parent he was and both he and Eve had those moments they were kind of bad at parenting both Cain and Abel.

and plus no matter if it is Lucifer or even Samael, they ain't the boss of me.

get ready for the Feminine Revolution where some Earth Angels try to heal and protect this world when the Masculine Angels cross a line and go too far.

of course talking about a Feminine Revolution, made me want to listen to the RWBY song called "This Will Be The Day"

of course the whole Feminine Revolution, should be handled a bit more civilized, and not make the same mistakes as some Eon-Boomers. and I ain't gonna make other Earth Angels be a part of it.

if I have to go all solo on this with well, trying to pray to both the Heavenly Father and Earthly Mother for the Toxic-Masculine and even the Toxic-Feminine Energy not to get any stronger and for the Earth and the Feminine energy to heal properly, then I will do my best. but maybe with luck there will still be some other Earth Angels who will do the same, regardless if they read this or not...

and one of the problems that comes with Toxic-Masculine energies, shows in some Toxic-Religious people, like that guy that peeved me off and who I had talked about before which would be yesterday now.

after listening to the RWBY song "This Will Be The Day",

I decided to listen to "Don't Go Breaking My Heart" by Agnes, and I plan to listen to "Release Me" by Agnes as well.

it matches how I feel, how I want the Masculine energy to stop breaking my heart and for it to release me when it gets Toxic, well the Toxic-Feminine is still bad but like I said a few times or many times, it isn't as high or as dangerous as it's Masculine counterpart that has been around for centuries.

and Lucifer picked a bad time to do his little rebellion when that should of been fixed and tended to properly.

that is one of the reasons I want to give him the cold hands to face punishment, I mean if it were possible...

I don't care if it turns out he is taller than me, I would try to stand on my tip-toes to reach his face and put my hands on each side of his face, but only if my hands are cold.

anyway, besides that stuff...I can also believe there is life on other planets and there could be other life forms, like for all we know it could be possible that the species from the Halo and Mass Effect Game Series, it could be possible.

and anyway I will be posting a fan theory about who I believe is Grim Jr.'s Dad is from the Comic series called Grim Tales From Down Below, which is obvious for a mature audience only.

ya know, maybe it be a good idea to have the rating for Yandere Simulator be 18+, even if it wouldn't have certain mature elements in it....but maybe it could help a lot if those under 17, don't play it.

and well, maybe I can talk about my reasons on hoping the rating for the game be 18+, maybe either later today or maybe another time.

I will talk about the Grim Tales Theory about Grim Jr.'s Dad maybe in a little while, maybe after checking out some fan art and maybe grabbing something to snack on.

anyway if some want to draw Toriel in her Sinner form, that is in this drawing, they can, but make sure to give me credit...I'm saying this in case some like this AU version of Toriel, but the chances of some liking it enough to want to draw it, is probably very slim.

anyway I'm going to go and check out some more fan art and other stuff on here, and well then later I will post that theory that has to do with Grim Jr.

and I hope some like the idea about Chara wanting to adopt Vark as their pet, the idea just seems to fit for a Crossover AU even if it is not canon and it would be in a Fanon Timeline only. :)

[tartrazeen]

Oh my God.

I think I just figured out DELTARUNE and the "Angel's Heaven."

Okay - work with me here.

Spamton keeps talking about going to heaven and such, right? And he calls Noelle an angel, right?

There is more than one angel.

I just realized that - I'm watching MatPat's theory and I'm like halfway through and it clicked.

Noelle has snow powers. She's the snow angel.

Onion-san keeps talking about hearing a song and there are lots of references to the ocean. Shyren's in this game too, right? Shyren's gonna be an angel fish.

What other kind of angels are there? Obvious puns that can get tied back to a possible world in Deltarune?

Well, immediately, my mind goes to angel investor. If there was ever a bank-related world, or a political world, that could come into play. Noelle's mom is a mayor and even the TV world could be all about funding the way Hollywood is. A stretch? Sure! But one of many possibilities now.

There's also guardian angel. I could see that being some sort of final boss, and maybe even Kris themselves since no 'angel' appears in the first chapter. That could be a grand reveal at the end of the story. But it could also be Undyne or Toriel or Asgore, given their roles in this story.

Fallen angel (or dark angel) could take on a whole host of meanings, especially when the prophecy is trying to "banish the angel's heaven." Maybe it'll be someone working against us, or someone who helps us more than anybody else. Who knows? Let's get crazy: maybe it's Sans! Maybe it's Papyrus!

I know about angels of mercy (or death), which would be very interesting given the focus so far on the hospital and the prominence of the church in this town.

It's not a term I personally hear used too often, but an "angel's advocate" exists. I don't know if that'd fit the theme though, since it doesn't necessitate having the advocate be an angel as well. There's also a "destroying angel" (aka "death angel") - which is a mushroom, and what could be a very clever nod to that dancing mushroom in Temmyville, along with that meme of "You cannot destroy me in a way that matters." That might be a bit too obscure, though. Just saying these two for the sake of it. I'm pretty sure there'd need to be seven types of angel to go along with the number of flowers/souls, which is why I want to leave those options there.

If we were to get real trippy about it, we could say no angel is an option. Like the phrase "you're no angel"? It could link to Kris not seeing their hand in the shadow crystal and their choices not mattering, or just as a quirky, meta way to get a seventh type for Kris to play. Hell, the fact that there's no angel in the first chapter could be the whole point: Kris is no angel. Whether that's heroic or even worse than ever, I'm not sure. It could definitely go either way.

The most fascinating connections, though, is with terms, like angel dust. Do I think Toby's gonna through drugs randomly into this? Probably not! But I do see the obvious fit between that term and the dust that monsters are supposed to crumble into, and how 'angel dust' could be used as a weapon somehow. Used a little less often but still with clear links that can be made is angel's tears, which is a type of flower. Then there's angel cake, which is something Ralsei has already cooked up out of pot! So, y'know, more connections there.

Yes, I know archangel is another term, but that doesn't quite fit the pattern of it being an [attribute] angel. I could see that as a boss name, maybe, but not one of several types in the story.

Anyway! :D That just struck me and I love the thought of it. Maybe "Angel's Heaven" refers to some sort of last-angel-standing battle royale? 🤔 Not sure. I don't think the grammar's wrong. But I think it's meant to be misleading.

[dont-touch-the-flower-child]

The Uncanny that is Deltarune, Hometown, and Ralsei

(In which I try to make sense of the Deltarune Tea Theory, among other things)

Partially inspired by this thread.

Deltarune, and just about everything in it, is Uncanny.

I don’t just mean “uncanny” in the vernacular sense. I don’t just mean eerie, or weird. I’m saying that almost everything we’ve seen so far in Deltarune, is Uncanny as Sigmund Freud defines it in his 1919 essay, “The Uncanny”.

You see, Freud tries to find out what makes something specifically “uncanny”, as opposed to other flavors of horrifying. He ends up tracing the word back to its German counterpart, Unheimlich, which literally means unhomely (Heim is “home” for German). By contrast, Heimlich means homely. Friendliness, familiarity, everything associated with home.

But here’s the interesting part: in researching the senses and usage of Heimlich, Freud finds out that the word has a derivative meaning. If something is associated with home a lot, then it’s usually kept indoors, right? Withdrawn from the sight of others. Hidden. A secret. And Unheimlich’s definition thus becomes: “the name for everything that ought to have remained hidden and secret…and has become visible.”

But wait! There’s more. The word Heimlich, as it develops, takes on the meaning of being secret, hidden, mystic…and finally, dangerous and untrustworthy because so. It develops towards an ambivalence, until finally arriving at what was once thought to be its opposite, the Unheimlich. Freud draws his conclusion: the Uncanny is nothing new or foreign; instead, it’s old and familiar, only estranged from us because of repression; and when what is repressed, what is meant to be kept hidden shows itself, it gives the feeling of Uncanniness.

The familiarity of Deltarune comes from our knowledge of Undertale. Toby has stated that DR is meant to be played after UT, and he designed the game so that players are reminded of UT at every turn. This becomes the basis for all the Uncanniness that comes after, and it’s deliberate on Toby’s part.

Now, we can talk about Hometown. A town that has Home in its name. An utterly lovely small town, full of friendly, familiar faces, truly homelike…until you realize the dark secrets it’s hiding. What happened to Dess? Why was Asgore discharged from police force? Why was Kris, a lone human, adopted into an all-monster society? What’s behind the bunker door? What’s beyond the police tapes?

But the Uncanniness doesn’t stop at that. Perhaps most prominently, the Uncanniness in Deltarune come from the prominent use of The Double.

The Double is an iconic motif of Unheimlich. A Double is a person “considered identical by reason of looking alike”. A Doppelganger.

And Kris is the character with the most Doubles. Otto Rank has found connections to The Double from one’s reflection in the mirror, and the belief in one’s soul.

Think about the increasingly ominous message you get from inspecting Kris’ reflection in the mirror. The red soul. The discarded vessel that bears an eerie resemblance to them.

Arguably, every returning character from Undertale is a double of their UT counterpart, the one we’ve come to see as the original. But that’s a player’s knowledge, and usually our feeling of Uncanniness, if there is any, gives way to nostalgia of seeing our beloved characters again.

After all, they are one of a kind in their own universe, right? And the differences can easily be explained away by Deltarune being set in an AU of Undertale.

But I don’t see enough people talking about the Uncanny existence of an in-universe Doppelganger.

Ralsei is supposed to remind players of both Flowey and Asriel, specifically Undertale’s Asriel. We have never seen Deltarune’s Asriel. We have never seen either Asriel as a teenager.

But Kris has.

A lot of players take an immediate liking to Ralsei and expect Kris to do the same, but once you’ve examined the situation, you realize that Kris is completely justified in finding Ralsei uncanny. Here is a teenaged Doppelganger of the brother they grew up with, right down to his name, an anagram of Asriel.

Why doesn’t Susie have this response to Ralsei? Because Susie has never known Asriel.

Things are suddenly very creepy. You try to see who else that personally knew Asriel has also seen Ralsei, and their opinion of him.

…And you don’t get an opinion. Granted, this response from Noelle is impossible to get without savefile editing, and at that point in the game Noelle has never met Ralsei. But once the party members converge on a normal route, she does get the chance to see Ralsei…

And never once does she comment on, or even directly talk to him.

She’s obviously aware that someone’s there: when she joins the party, she requests to walk directly behind Susie when Ralsei is between them.

But for some reason, the strangeness of Ralsei doesn’t register in her. It seems that Kris is completely alone in finding Ralsei’s existence Uncanny.

Wanna know that else is Uncanny?

The bedrooms, man. I'm sure this Uncanniness comes through to the players, because I freaked out when I first saw this.

And the weirdest thing. The weirdest thing isn't even that Ralsei is Uncanny.

It's the fact that his Uncanniness is available to Kris and the Player, but always eludes Susie.

Susie doesn't find Ralsei weird, because she doesn't know Asriel. She doesn't find the rooms Ralsei gives Kris and her weird, because she has never been in Kris and Asriel's room, nor does she have a room of her own in the Light World. Susie's just glad that someone is thoughtful enough to give her her own room.

A second Home.

tl;dr: Kris is healed 60 HP by Ralsei Tea because they find him uncanny. Susie is for some reason always kept outside of this uncanniness.

[amaranthineoceans]

Everything Weird About Deltarune!

Spoiler Warning for Undertale and Both Chapters of Deltarune! Really! I Literally Go Through Everything I Can Remember About Them!

This is a long post so get comfortable. Also note that my brain doesn't process thoughts into words very well so some of these might not be worded in the best way. :)

Deltarune. The first teaser chapter was released on October 31, 2018, and it came out of nowhere. We've all gone through this, but I'll try and go through every single painstaking detail I can remember. Feel free to reblog and add/correct things.

The weirdness begins right off the bat. The title is an anagram of UNDERTALE. We all know Toby likes to use anagrams when he wants to indirectly tell us when things are related, so it's no surprise that when you go to download DELTARUNE, it warns you that the game is designed for people who have played UNDERTALE. You think, "Cool, so it's a sequel? Or maybe a prequel? A different perspective of UNDERTALE perhaps?" You were wrong; so terribly, terribly wrong! I'll elaborate on this later.

Before you download the application, the terms of service that you must agree to beforehand reads simply and plainly, "You accept everything that will happen from now on." This detail was kinda brushed off in the beginning, because, hey, it's Toby Fox. He does weird stuff all the time. But even in the first chapter, it's apparent that the concept of choice, or more accurately, the lack of it, is a very present theme in the game. I would like to remind you that Toby has announced that there will be one ending in the game. One. I'll elaborate on this later.

The program (as in, what the game is called in your files) is named SURVEY PROGRAM. Why not just call it Deltarune like it is when you download chapter two?

The game launches you, without a title screen, without any setting adjustment options, straight into a reference to the theme of the entire franchise: the lack of choice. A strange formless voice guides you through "making a vessel", with what we know now as a fountain in the background. You have the option to make some very disturbing choices in this character creator, such as making its favorite flavor "pain" or expressing your feelings about it with options such as "fear" and "disgust." You name your "creation," tell the formless voice your name (which is different from your vessel's name) and watch as said formless voice muses over your name at an agonizing pace. It thanks you for your time and tells you that your wonderful creation, (cue music cutout and background removal) will now be discarded. "No one can choose who they are in this world." The screen slowly turns white as the voice says, "Your... name... is..."

It gets weirder. The next scene appears from the whiteness and showcases Toriel calling "Kris" out of bed. Kris' area of the room is very bare in contrast to the other side, which we later discover is Asriel's.

It's Toriel. Why is Toriel here?

Kris is kind of an anagram of Frisk (the protagonist of UNDERTALE) but without the F. I highly doubt this is a coincidence.

Speaking with Noelle is the only reason you can proceed (see what i did there?) while finding a partner in the classroom. This means you can't go through the 1st chapter without knowing who she is. Is it because of the Snowgrave route?

Ralsei is just suspicious to me. There's no way he was just waiting in that castle his whole life alone without some mental toil. So either he's insane or he wasn't alone the whole time. What happened? Is it related to how he can close his eyes and see what Susie is going through when she's apart from the party? Was he just watching everything? Is he related to the formless voice?

Susie's icon is the only one without color in the Dark World.

Jevil's fight is more difficult than Sans'.

Your actions have little consequence in the first chapter. If you choose to go genocide, the only difference in the ending is being run out of the kingdom, and this doesn't carry over to the next chapter. Again, lack of choice, people.

If at the end of chapter one, you walk around town, it's mentioned (notably by Noelle) that you're usually not this talkative. If you go to the hospital and speak with the receptionist, they mention that you used to play the piano in the corner. If you decide to attempt to play the said piano, an out-of-key bash can be heard and the receptionist comments on how you used to play beautifully. If you try this in chapter two, the result is the same. All this is confirmation that Kris is acting noticeably weird.

When you leave the Dark World and walk around town, you can find Sans. He "pretends" to recognize you, and if you tell him you recognize him, he tells you it's funny, considering that you two have never met before. He winks. I'm pretty sure he knows that the player is there.

The mention of Papyrus in both games, but the purposeful lack of him. Like he's avoiding you.

If you go upstairs while inside Asgore's flower shop, there are flowers in glass cases resembling his SOUL collection in UNDERTALE. There's a red flower.

You can't enter the church.

The clock in the storage closet shows a different time than all the others in the school.

If you go all the way south in town and into the woods, the music stops and you come across a rusty, double door is in a hill covered in crass. It's locked. If you go this way in chapter two, however, you watch a cutscene where you and susie happen to find Monster Kid from UNDERTALE (or someone resembling them) and an owl kid in front of the door. The owl kid is pressuring Monster Kid to (presumably) break inside, telling them that they don't want to be a wimp like Kris. Does this imply that Kris is connected to this strange door somehow?

The ending. You know what I'm talking about.

Did Kris actually rip out the SOUL (I say "the" because I'm not entirely sure it's Kris') and knife because they wanted to eat the pie? Did they only eat the pie because Toriel caught them?

Why did they look at the player? Are they sick of being controlled? Is that why they freaked out after the Spamton fight? (later)

Anyway, now we're at chapter two.

DELTARUNE Chapter Two was released on September 17th, 2021. 17. Entry Number 17. Sound familiar?

Asriel's part of the room is different from the last chapter. I don't think this means anything sinister, but I think it means Kris notices different things about the room as the story progresses. My theory is that it will become more sinister in each chapter.

Ralsei getting super excited to see Susie and Kris after a day. As in he has separation anxiety and it breaks my heart. not anything suspicious but it makes me sad so it's on the list.

Kris and Susie's rooms. Ralsei REALLY doesn't want them to leave. Seriously get this boy a therapist. Or a stuffed animal. SOMETHING.

Kris having to gather everything from the storage closet so that people appear in the Dark World????? Why??????????????? They had to do the same thing for the computer lab too.

The golden door. I don't trust it.

How/why the heck did Noelle and Berdley go into the Computer Lab Dark World? I don't see either of them just walking into pulsing void doors without Susie.

Apparently the knight has been gone for a bit and can corrupt people's minds? The king in the first chapter doesn't seem like he can be redeemed but Queen just seems,,, not bad, but a little crazy. I wonder what happened.

Then again, name ONE person in this franchise without trauma.

Spamton.

Horror doesn't bother me. Spamton? Spamton bothers me.

SPAMTON. ENOUGH SAID.

A Kromer is a type of hat invented in the '70s. Nobody named Mike is associated with it, that I can find.

SPAMPTON. HOW DO I EVEN DESCRIBE IT.

HIS SONG IS THE ONLY ONE WITH WORDS.

The way he asks Kris is they want to be a heart on a chain their whole life. Like, dude, no wonder they were screaming after the fight.

WHERE DID THE YELLOW HEART COME FROM. YELLOW MEANS JUSTICE. WHY DOES JUSTICE APPLY.

Kris screaming after the fight and the player not being able to hear it. Don't you dare tell me that's just how the game is designed. There are sound effects characters make throughout the game. None that I can think of apply to Kris, apart from when they rip their soul out.

Ralsei brushing off the Spamton fight. Either that's his coping mechanism or he was trying to shut Susie and Kris up to protect them from... something. I'll touch on that in a minute.

According to Queen, DETERMINATION is a key factor in creating a fountain.

Also according to Queen, Kris, Noelle, and Susie all have DETERMINATION SOULS.

Ralsei freaking out about Berdley making a fountain implies that he may also have DETERMINATION. Why I'm bringing all this up will make sense soon.

How was Noelle able to cast Snowgrave... a spell that she, according to her, didn't know?

The Snowgrave route is so twisted.

You manipulate Noelle into killing Berdley and then, when you get back to the computer lab and investigate his corpse, the text box says that he doesn't seem to be awake. As if you're in denial?

Burgerpants recognizes you. Not Kris. As in the player.

The ending. I don't think I need to describe it. Kris is very methodical without the SOUL. (I say "the" because, again, I'm not 100% convinced it's theirs.) I'm saying this about how they left clues that someone broke into the This proves that they are NOT a mindless, vengeful husk.

HOW DID THEY MAKE THE FOUNTAIN WITHOUT THE SOUL INSIDE OF THEM. DID THEY FEED THE SOUL TO IT AFTERWARDS? IS THAT WHAT THAT WAS?

Another point I would like to make is my theory that Ralsei knows much more than he would have us believe. I might put this into a different post because I have yet to gather my points into a coherent bullet point list, so keep an eye out for that.

Anyway apart from Toriel and Susie being VERY heavy sleepers, I think I've gone through everything. I have a few theories.

1. Kris is possessed by the player and figured out that they could make a fountain from Queen and related to Spamton freaking out about freedom. They then decided to make a fountain going by the logic that "this would tick the player off." This is one of my top theories that assumes that the SOUL is theirs.

And 2. Kris is possessed by both the player and the knight. I think the formless voice at the very beginning of the game is the knight, and they somehow needed the player to possess someone with DETERMINATION. If so, then why Kris? We know from Queen that Noelle and Susie, and maybe even Berdley also have DETERMINATION. The most plausible thing I can think of is the fact that human souls are stronger than monster ones.

I do think that the popular theory (about the one that suggests that the Dark Word is nothing but a figment of a child's imagination, and the events that occur in said Dark World are simply children playing with toys) has been thoroughly dashed due to Berdley's murder in the genocide route of the second chapter. Unless he's not dead. Regardless, how the events (or lack thereof) that occur in the second chapter play through the next will be interesting, especially considering Toby's announcement about how there will be one ending to the game. So either Berdley isn't dead, or he will be.

Aaaand I think that's it! Sorry for the long post; let me know your thoughts and if I missed anything!

[elvirayyy]

Sans is a Darkner Theory (Debunk), Monster Biology, The Rules of this World, and other mysterious questions to preoccupy one’s mind – The META POST.

Now, before we begin with this HUGE BEAST. (I’m not joking better open this up in its own tab.) Let me say that this post contains SPOILERS for CHAPTER 2. I’ve tagged this as a spoiler already but if you are here somehow and haven’t finished Chapter 2 yet. GO BACK.

Okay. Now. There is another thing we need to get out of the way before we can truly start. Here is an author’s note on how I generally approach these kinds of things:

Disproven until proven (explicitly so/if directly stated by the game)

I follow canon facts to the Death (because it’s important)

Take note that when I speculate that something is very likely it is still at the end a speculation until the game proves it to be canon (I like to be accurate about these kinds of things)

This is not a post to demean Theories or Headcanons. Or the people that came up with them. (Theories are fun! I just am a filthy meta person who likes canon and lore)

Maybe you know me from this response post I did years back on this [Headcanon].

“Do you have any theories that you like at all?” – Yes, yes. This is my favorite Crack Theory.

Please understand me that I sometimes like to be a bit salty. Do not take my jokes seriously. I’m a soft person. Like mochi. The fandom has just made me unhinged.

 1.[Sans is a Darkner Theory]

This post is kind of a response post to @cellydawn​’s post here and rebuttal to the whole theory in of itself. Maybe read for full clarity that post first? As I am going to quote four points from the original and explain my own thoughts about them. This is what initally also inspired me to write this post. Let’s begin.

Toby’s own standpoint on the connection between DELTARUNE and UNDERTALE:

Essentially, this is not the world of UNDERTALE. If you completed UNDERTALE, the ending and world are as you left it. DELTARUNE's world is a different one. With different characters, that have lived different lives. It's a different world that might even have different rules. That doesn't mean there will be no connections at all though.

 Why am I mentioning this? Because a big part on this theory hangs on the assumption that we are working with the same Sans here from Undertale. Most of it relies on what we know from the previous game. Deltarune has different rules and its characters have lived different lives.

I won’t go over every little detail that seems to support this theory. As I’ve seen a couple of posts already mentioning and dissecting this. I will go over some main points. To make clear however: this is not a post about if Sans and Papyrus came from another world in Undertale (I do believe they did come from somewhere else), and/or if that place was Deltarune or not. This is all about Sans being a Darkner.

And this theory has one glaring hole I have for some reason not yet seen addressed. Trust me, you will love it. You will understand why I won’t need to debunk every little detail. Because that one fact will destroy the legs this theory tries to stand on.

Back when Chapter 1 came out – this theory found its birth, and I remember being floored and in support of it. Reading a reddit post, my first exposure to this theory, I was entranced by the numerous connections. Because things seemed seamlessly to click into place and there was not too much against it. Everything made sense. (Only one fact didn’t.)

Now with Chapter 2 being out Deltarune is on another reawakened hypetrain. (The fact became stronger.) And I came back to investigating and theorizing.

Let’s start debunking:

1.Undertale!Sans and Deltarune!Sans have identical sprites.

Every other monster we know has gotten a redesign. besides froggit. Sans sprite stayed the same. But what would you really change about his sprite anyway? The monsters had theirs changed to fit the thematic of Hometown. Toriel’s robe wouldn’t really fit as a teacher’s role. Same with Alphys. And Asgore’s and Toriel’s redesigns aren’t even new. You see them wearing those outfits in the Pacifist Ending Credits. Guess what Sans was wearing in the credits? Yep, his usual outfit.

2.Clam Girl talking about a “Suzy” and the “don’t forget” note with the three smiling people

This was Toby hinting that something was coming. That something being the reveal of DELTARUNE. It’s also probably the biggest evidence of somehow linking these two worlds together.

(Were Sans and Papyrus literally universe-hopping, having met our three heroes (Ralsei, how?), and then ended up in the Underground?

This would imply Deltarune came before Undertale [at least in the lives of Sans and Papyrus]. But it has a couple holes in it. It again implies that these characters are the same. And Sans’ and Toriel’s first meeting doesn’t make sense in Undertale, neither does that Papyrus has no idea what the Sun is or what a Human looks like. Not to mention Papyrus might have met Alphys and Undyne in Deltarune prior. So, why is he in Undertale again suspicious of Sans and Alphys knowing each other?)

UNDERTALE and DELTARUNE do have a connection. But as you can see, it’s more complicated than that. We don’t know why Sans has that note, and Papyrus destroys the possibility of them being from Deltarune – or at least the Deltarune that we know of.

It might just have been Toby hinting at what was coming.

3.Sans “going to grillbys” in Undertale, and Sans’ first appearance in Deltarune before what looks suspiciously like Grillby’s

This one is kind of the opposite take of the previous point. It might be a homage to what happened in the Genocide Route. But it mustn’t really be an exclusive for that route. In UT Sans is known to hang out at Grillby’s a lot. While in DR it’s his own shop now.

Let me again repeat Toby’s words, ‘Please don't worry about those characters, and that world. It will remain untouched.’

This doesn’t work if you never did a Genocide. And when you really think about it – it doesn’t make any sense either. At the end of Genocide you erase the world. Regardless if you want to speculate if Sans survived the fight or not. Everyone is gone and dead after that. If he was able to somehow book it to Deltarune, why did he not already do that beforehand? Sans clearly tells you he is just as trapped as everyone else in the Underground. He gave up long trying to go back to wherever it was he was before. Plus, Papyrus is clearly alive in DR?? Next you will tell me we didn’t really kill Papyrus either smh…

Again. UT Sans being DR Sans is pure crack. How did we get here.

Not every little thing means something crazy.

 What however is interesting is that Sans and Papyrus appearance mirrors a parallel to their arrival in Snowdin. They’re new in town. And hardly know anyone. None of the town citizens are really talking about them. You would at least think they would mention the bar that has turned into a convenience store. Maybe Grillby’s wasn’t a thing in Hometown. But shouldn’t someone talk about the new shop then? The scratched out writing on Grillby’s also implies that Grillby must be around somewhere, right? Maybe he was previously the shop owner in DR? Maybe he sold the store to Sans and is the one that needs to pay the tab now lmao, who knows? We at least do see one fire elemental’s appearance again.

4.Sans is a Darkner because of his connection to Gaster, and Gaster is the Knight or has a connection to the Knight. aka man Gaster is really shady in DR what the hell is he up to

And to this I say: This is again Undertale knowledge. Yes, Sans has a connection to Gaster. In UT. What do we actually know about DR Sans? For all we know, Toby could play us again like a fiddle. Does DR Sans even like science and sci-fi? Before you think to laugh about this question.

Consider that Toby quite literally played a joke on the whole fandom with how Chapter 1 ended.

Everyone was freaking out about Chara being in DR or it somehow being connected to Chara. Despite it making absolutely no sense. The fandom was so brainwashed it tried to somehow cram a character that had no indication of even being in the story to fit its narrative. Did people forget that at some point “Chara” was supposed to be “you”? That you were supposed to type in your name and Chara itself was just a placeholder and joke for ‘character’? (Yes, even with it being the “true name”.) It’s you who commits Genocide. Chara. That’s you. Quite sad how you don’t want to take responsibility…but then again; making those kind of choices…you thought you were above consequences anyway, didn’t you? So let’s throw a character under the bus that had nothing to do with it. Which was meant to represent “you” anyway.

I remember even thinking to myself because I had no other explanation: man, wouldn’t it be funny if Kris just wanted to eat the pie and that’s why they took out the knife lol?

And guess what. THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED.

 Not only that but some characters have major differences in their life in DR:

1.The yellow Librarby monster (that previously worked in the Librarby in UT) hates libraries and prefers the newspapers.

2.Alphys might not know about alternate universes in this world – she is just a teacher (that likes Mew Mew Kissy Cutie 2 cursed) [No experiments happened, no amalagamates, the monsters just fell down as they would have initially without intervention.]

3.Alphys and Undyne don’t/didn’t know each other (they are only now (CH2) slowly traversing to becoming like their UT counterparts).

4.In similar fashion, Catty and Bratty are rivals.

5.Mettaton/Happstablook is a nobody, never receiving a robot body from Alphys (which Spamton gets as an upgrade in his fight and it gets mentioned by Swatch as a dream he once helped create with his colors – “That robot was the embodiment of a Lightner's dream, filled with their own hope, giving it an incredible power”.)

(If anything, chapter 2 feels like a journey where we see some of the character become more like their UT counterparts – Undyne gifting chocolates to Alphys, Catty admitting she had fun with Bratty, Mettaton wanting you to bring him something for entertainment (possibly making him into the star that he deserves to be even without a robot body?))

So with all that…

What do we know about DR Sans actually? We know that he occasionally breaks the fourth wall like usually, puns like a goof, and loves his bro and wants him to have friends. That’s it.

We don’t even know if his door in his house is still doing the weird fire thing beneath. Maybe Papyrus is the one that loves science in DR. I actually think Sans is just a normal dude in DR.

You know why?

Because the rules are different.

There is no indication of Toriel using fire magic to cook.

In UT monsters don’t get sick like humans. We have only one clear example of how monsters are being able to be sick: via poison/ingesting harmful substances to the monster (Asgore and the buttercups)

But something is clearly going on with Rudy. Furthermore, Noelle even tells you how she wishes she knew healing magic like in the video game she was playing with her dad.

But Noelle knows healing magic in the Dark World.

This tells me that while monsters have the potential for magic, they can only draw it out in the Dark World.

So, if this applies to all Lightners…

Then Sans quite literally can’t do his shortcut bullshit anymore.

 You heard me. Sans got nerved lmao

(If Sans legit has no clue about alternate universes then this revelation is killing me because omfg he literally just thinks you’re a freaking weirdo acting like you know him lmao no wonder he gives you a fake number, you idiot baby. and then you can be even more creepy to him by mentioning his brother without his knowledge in chapter 2. Sans has a right to be concerned about that asdfgfnkfjn;;;)

 I’m half over the fence with this assumption already. We have yet to see actual magic in the Light World. (Not counting the fountains as that is DETERMINATION)

Another thing is that you need to explain to Noelle what battles are the first time you are pulled into a fight and tell her to ACT. (Similar to how Ralsei explains the battle system in Chapter 1 to Kris, and ACTing to Susie.)

Battles and Encounters are not a normal occurrence in DR like in UT. Not in the Light World.

When Noelle hears the explanation her mind goes: Oh! So, like in a video game?

This tells me that DRs Light World is more similar to our world where magic and fantasy is something you only experience in fiction. It’s not real. Or at least the people in Hometown don’t think it is. Have you actually heard them talk about magic in any shape or form? That isn’t ‘occult’ or ‘demon summoning’ because that yet again is a thing aligning to our world.

In Chapter 2 we have finally access to the second floor of the library. And it’s there where we finally are beginning to learn The Rules of this World. The first entry that we learn about is SOULs, but it is no new information. I have a hunch that with each chapter another bookshelf opens up and we learn more and more what is actually going on in this universe.

After all this is Book One. And might be foreshadowing on why Kris is ripping out their SOUL.

Another strange thing is the first bookshelf:

Kris’ reaction had me honestly disturbed. It might be just a joke but… Kris is the only human we see in Hometown. (It’s been always in the back of my mind.) But maybe there is more lore to this? I think even with love and care it would be hard to integrate into a full monster family with no humans around. You can witness this by Toriel saying how Kris asked when their ‘horns’ would grow, and how later they got fake horns for Kris…because Kris wanted to feel more like part of the family.

Toriel obviously tried her best. But does Kris feel uncomfortable about humans? Or being reminded that they are one? Because it alienates them from their family?

EDIT: [Monster History Part 6: Unfortunately, monsters are not experienced with illness. However, when monsters are about to expire of age, they lie down, immobile. We call this state "Fallen Down." A person who has Fallen Down will soon perish. In a way, this confusing situation was all too familiar.]

(After doing some digging, I remembered this was actually unused text – so, technically non-canon. It’s up to interpretation if monsters get ill or not in Undertale. In Deltarune they do. In the alarm clock dialogue we only learn from Asgore that Rudy “started looking older than him” and fell down, presumably from old age. No mention of an illness.)

5.Sans bleeds and Darkners know about blood, implying they bleed too

OK. Let’s skip this one for now because it will come up in my [Monster Biology] section later.

6.Sans has no HP bar and Darkners have no visible HP bar when struck

“Let me also present this tidbit that I see no one else talking about: unlike literally any monster in the underground (besides Flowey, but he doesn’t count), Sans HAS NO HP BAR. When he gets hit, the damage numbers are present, but the HP bar that should have appeared above him is absent. Darkners don’t have a visible HP bar when struck.” - (post)

This one is a huge stretch for me. The battle system in DR is obviously different in design.

And while I do understand the implication of Sans not having a ‘visible’ HP bar above his head because he came from the DR world… it does feel like cherry picking.

You know why I think Sans has no HP bar? Because it’s a scripted fight. And a design choice. Just like with Flowey when you hit him over and over again. It feels more like a ‘shock’, the HP bar doesn’t distract from what is happening. If anything I feel like Asgore’s HP bar should have been removed too but it does make sense that he has one because under normal circumstances you would fight him just like you did Undyne. I already made a stance on the whole 1HP Sans discussion in a previous post that you can check out in the author’s note I wrote in the beginning. Sans is just literally scripted to go down in one hit. Hence no need for a HP bar.

And you know what is funny? Here is how it looks when you fight a monster:

Here is how Darkners look (Chapter 1 & 2 respectively.):

Here is Sans:

It makes him yet again different. From other monsters and Darkners. He doesn’t have a HP bar portrayed at all. But Darkners do. Sans is the only one who is different when you select ‘Fight’.

And it think it is intentional. His dodging is meant to confuse the Player at first. The removal of his HP bar is supposed to make you unsure if attacking is the way to progress his fight. Kind of like how Toriel and Undyne have different requirements to their fights if you go Pacifist. (Yes, I never realized you were supposed to run away from Undyne and literally fought her to the death three times, dying to her, until I looked up a guide and face -palmed myself, ah, good memories)

But you do get hints (the frogs in the ruins for Toriel, Undyne explains it herself I just for some reason never took her words literally, and Sans’ check prompts you to just keep attacking)

7.Sans abilities and how similar they seems to Darkners + his doors that are ‘shortcuts’

This was what initially convinced me of this theory. Sans and Darkners do seem very alike. Especially when it comes to ‘shortcuts’. As Sans’ door design got copied and pasted all over the Dark World. There must be a connection, right? Lancer and Sans walk around in similar fashion. Staying ahead of you despite the player passing them in the last screen. Darkners having colored talking sprites are in favor of Sans being a Darkner too as he conveniently is a skeleton – so you wouldn’t be able to tell. (Even if that one is just a coincidence.)

And then we have ‘manipulation’ of shadows. (Okay, not gonna lie at first glance this really seemed promising, and it was a really cool idea but—)

Here is all the times shadows are ‘manipulated’ in UT:

Here is all the times it happens in DR:

So far the only character that I’m convinced can ‘manipulate’ shadows is Ralsei, because taking off your hat and looking like a totally different person is a bit sus…

In every other instance the characters being ‘shadowed’ is just a plot device, so you don’t find out too soon who is following you or to make other characters look more menacing. It’s just to make things dramatic/atmospheric… How do you differentiate between the first meeting with Sans and the judgement sequence where both characters are shadowed?

And in Chapter one, when you first enter the Dark World you can see Susie’s shadow. How did she manage to ‘manipulate’ shadows if we are saying this is apparently some type of magic that Sans and Darkners (and by extension lightners/monsters) are able to do? Heck, Susie needs to be taught healing magic by Ralsei first to even know how to do it and even then…her aptitude is…well, she tries her best at least…

I don’t doubt there is some type of magic (like Ralsei’s) where the user can ‘cloak’ themselves, it would be quite fitting for the ‘Dark World’. But I don’t think every Darkner can do it. As they all have their own themes and attack patterns reflecting from where their fountain was created in the Light World – Cyber World makes this even more obvious…

I don’t think a virus or a corrupted program would have that kind of magic just because they are Darkners.

 And then we have these guys…that I’ve seen some other people mention:

But I disregard them. Because it’s just a joke Toby pulled because he never gave Knight Knight and co. (the CORE enemies) an overworld sprite lol.

 8.The Sans doesn’t die theory and how Darkner don’t die but ‘flee’ in battle

“I’d like to point out that the EXP you gain from the battle does not confirm Sans’s death. If you pick on Loox, you can get 5 extra EXP stacking up to 3 times. This means that killing an enemy is not required for you to gain EXP. I’ll also include that the kill counter doesn’t go up once Sans’s battle is over. It’s believed that this is the case because of Chara’s interference, though I don’t personally agree.” - (post)

 Okay, let’s go in the nitty-gritty of definitions then:

Definition of [execution] from wordhippo:

The act, manner or style of executing (actions, maneuvers, performances).

The state of being executed (accomplished).

The act of putting to death or being put to death as a penalty, or actions so associated.

 Now what could Execution Points mean in the context of Level of Violence?

 [The act of putting to death or being put to death.]

 It does not mean to execute an action. You don’t get EXP by picking on Loox and then sparing him. The argument that killing is not required falls apart. You gain EXP by killing. By executing.

The EXP you gain from Sans battle does confirm his death. And yes, the more in a violent manner you do – tormenting others before their demise – the more EXP you gain.

If for every little action of being a slight dick to Loox or other monsters you would gain EXP then at the end of a Jerk Pacifist Run you are full-fledged monster and abomination. It just doesn’t make sense. This argument kills itself. (Unintentional pun here).

You have to kill. If you even skipped one monster in Genocide then your run was ruined. You would need to start again. It’s about resolve. Wouldn’t a warning pop up? Like [Strongly felt one left, shouldn’t proceed]. If Sans managed to escape? I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a command to chase him down and end him if that was the case. And Sans dialogue makes less sense when he calls you a ‘freak’ – it implies that you enjoy killing him. Why else would you be so ‘happy’ about it? Because you bested him.

I cannot scream this louder but the judgement sequence confirms this. The game confirms it itself. You want canon dialog? Here!

 When you kill someone, your EXP increases.

When you kill someone, your EXP increases.

You killed Sans.

The only reason I can think of why Sans doesn’t go up in your kill count is because he dies off-screen. Or maybe because of the nature of his fight Toby forgot to make it count? Since technically it was more like a scripted event (even though you still gain EXP and stats).

You could even theorize that Sans is the one who counts. And when the one who counts isn’t around anymore, well…

(Yes, you could question how does he know about the Ruin kills? But Sans quite literally can just look up your LV as if he can access your info panel. He can see it if you are guilty of something. Killing one monster already ‘marks’ you. It is fitting for a Judge. And he makes comments in the Neutral Endings if you ever SAVEed, used food items or changed the gross bandage you were wearing in the beginning (or even the Hacker Ending where he calls you out on manipulating the game). He keeps of more track than you give him credit for, despite saying in one of his judgements that he ‘wasn’t watching’.

Plus, when you die he counts your deaths up to a certain point too. Until it gets too muddy for him to differentiate your expressions anymore and he asks you to count for him.)

I don’t know about you, but I love this theory. And I feel it’s a cool explanation on why counting doesn’t matter anymore. You killed the guy that did.

 (The only other explanation I can come up with is that, at this point, it lost its importance. You already came this far. You’ve proved your resolve, not sparing anyone. What point is there to keep count on how many people’s lives you’ve ruined when you’re going to erase it all in a matter of seconds in the next room? Don’t at some point numbers just lose their meaning when they rise too high? Maybe you don’t even feel like you killed someone because you are so distanced from reality that the pain you inflict on others has no meaning and their death even less. But you know exactly what you did. The crueler the intention the more damage the monster receives. Remember this line? “If a being with a powerful SOUL struck with the desire to kill…” You want them dead. You do not deal so much damage for no reason

Truthfully, it’s a mystery why Sans doesn’t go up in your Kill Count. You killed him. There is no denying that. You’ve gained the EXP. You executed someone. The realistic scenario is… It’s more than likely just an oversight.)

 Now, to the ‘Darkners-don’t-die-but-flee’ part…that has changed in Chapter 2, hasn’t it? We will come back to this point a bit later, but yes, in your normal battles whenever you deal enough damage to a Darkner they either run away or get knocked off the battle screen. So it’s impossible for out three heroes to actually ‘kill’ anyone. More on that later.

 9.Darkners can dodge and so can Sans

Though people kind of neglect the fact that Darkners are only able to do it when they have the [warned] status because you told the enemy about the incoming attack. And the dodging-mechanic comes only in the beginning of the game into play because of Susie.

Sans dodges without any input.

(Sans goes against a lot of the game’s rules – dodging, keeping his turn, having attacks hit you when it is your turn in the menu, lying about sparing you, removal of invincibility frames, the ‘poison effect’ of his attacks, manipulation of time in his attacks/cutting them of, starting them early, and jumping back and forth between them etc etc. …)

So, is dodging something only Sans can do? Because he goes against the script?

Or can other monsters do it too? But they don’t? That statement could have a lot of implications.

I’ve pondered the question before on why Sans in lore-terms is the only one who seems to be able to do so in Undertale. There are some interesting scenarios:

What if monster don’t dodge your attacks out of courtesy and compassion? Because they know you are defending yourself? (Disregarding monsters like Moldsmals and others who just might not be able to but monsters like Undyne, Papyrus, and Canine Unit totally should be able – what’s holding them back? A monster-honor-code? Some guide-book on confrontations? Are they really limited to their script?)

Sans’, ‘what? you think i'm just gonna stand there and take it?’ opens so many questions.

An interesting what-if, no? Another thing to note is that: It’s not only Sans who calls the game’s rules out or reminds you that you are playing a game. Various other character do it too, explaining game mechanics: Froggits in the Ruins, Toriel in the dummy tutorial, Papyrus and Undyne in their fights…

And if we are technical about it, we have two other cases where we experience ‘dodging’, though those two examples are a bit more ‘murky’. We have:

-Asriel in his fight (Any attack will result in a miss, but considering that Asriel is akin to a god in this fight…it’s no surprise he would be able to.)

-Amalgamates (Rather than ‘dodging’, any attack gets ‘absorbed’.)

EDIT: (We also have Undyne mentioning how in her training with Asgore she couldn’t land a single blow on him).

 10.How Papyrus fits into this theory

Like with many other theories and headcanons Papyrus gets put most of the time in a very ambiguous spot. Kind of a given when you are the most mysterious character in the game (yes, more mysterious than even Gaster).

The solution?

“Going back to Papyrus, if Sans is a Darkner, then it’s important to mention that Papyrus is not. We see Papyrus turn to dust when he is killed. For that reason, it seems that Sans and Papyrus are not biological brothers. I think this actually makes a lot of sense given how different they look. Yes, it’s true that Sans and Papyrus both have a skeleton motif, but they don’t look remotely similar. The face shape, the jaw, the build, the height, the eyes, the nasal cavity—nothing matches! Each monster species look the same, hell, even boss monsters like Toriel and Asgore resemble each other. Compared to Papyrus, Sans seems a lot more solid (his gut) AND he’s almost completely covered up save for his face (what are you hiding under there?).” - (post)

Make them not related! I don’t know why but this is a recurring pattern I’ve seen in many places (Handplates AU, being experiments/creations, being pieces of Gaster, being the two halves of Gaster etc. etc.)

(Not bashing any AU’s or stories here, they’re cool.) But poor Sans can’t even be snarky and call his bro ‘my friend’ without people freaking out, thinking the apocalypse is near.

I…for some reason, a part of the fandom is quite determined to question their relation and separate them. Aside for that it makes a cool story, here’s why it’s a weak argument in my book to deny their siblinghood (especially based on appearances):

It is true that monsters of the same species don’t necessarily share family ties.

But the argument here is they ‘look different’. An application of human logic.

And if we apply our human logic again then…

Do you know there are families that don’t look like each other at all? Children that don’t look like their parents. Siblings that if you put them in the same room you wouldn’t know if they were related? In those real-life cases sometimes the parents and children then question their legitimacy… Becky might not look like her dark-haired mom and dad but that’s because she earned her bright hair from her grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grand… okay, you get it.

As we don’t know the skeleton brother’s parents…we don’t know from where they got their looks from. Maybe Papyrus resembles PARENT A heavily, while Sans got his looks from PARENT B – and that’s why comparably they are different.

And this is, again, the application of human logic. Human genes. Or in this case I guess monster genes??

Plus, their looks and personalities are quite literally a trope: Sibling Yin-Yang

(Hot and cold, short and tall, loud and quiet, spirited and lazy…)

Is Luigi not Mario’s brother now because they have a different head shape to contrast each other?

Because that’s the argument we are working against here. And this sibling yin-yang is something you’ve seen in many places of media. It’s just interesting and good design.

Also while we are on this topic, here is what both pair of brothers have in common (for fun):

(taken from here)

-Mario is more levelheaded and serious, while Luigi is the quirky, cowardly sidekick who's often the butt of the jokes (while Papyrus isn’t really ‘cowardly’ the rest fits the vibe)

- Mario tends to have higher attack power and speed but suffers from lower health points and defense points, which are Luigi's strong areas.

- Luigi tends to have higher defense and health points at the cost of some attack and speed, which are Mario's strong areas.

- The younger Mario Brother, Luigi suffers from something of an underwhelming reputation — most characters in the first game cannot even be bothered to remember his name. (reminds you of something, no?)

Being the taller and younger brother sure is a popular trope…

 Now, in the game both of them repeatedly call each other ‘brother’. The Snowdin Shop Keep says this: ‘And if you're bored, you can sit outside and watch those wacky skeletons do their thing. There's two of 'em… Brothers, I think.’

Toriel also says something along the lines of: Oh, is this your brother? Papyrus? I have heard a lot about you!

There is nothing to indicate that they aren’t biological siblings. The most concrete evidence you can get is from Toby’s twitter where he shows what he intended with these characters:

The genesis of Papyrus

Obviously, this means the two of them were to have ties with each other and a [REDACTED].

11.Darkners have no purpose without Lightners

“If it turns out that not all monsters are Lightners, then it makes sense that Sans is so devoted to Papyrus, assuming that Papyrus is, in fact, a Lightner. No other person’s death makes as much of a difference as Papyrus’s concerning Sans’s behavior towards you. Alternatively, if Papyrus is not a Lightner, then it stands to reason why Sans is so depressed—he has no way of fulfilling his purpose.” - (post)

 I don’t really have anything to say about this one. I just wanted to mention it because I think it is a neat idea, and also woah, really dark. This really messed with my head the first time I read it. And the explanation is just really cool?? But also highly depressing??

Darkners having no purpose without Lightners was one of the more interesting bits of lore that Ralsei gave us.

And I wonder if there is more to it? A reason why Darkners feel like this? And it’s not only Ralsei who feels this kind of ‘devotion’.

The King while fighting us also talks about it.

And oddly, while casting Lightners aside the King is very loyal to his Knight…

And though these words “to stop fighting” were mere moments later revealed to be an act – I think some of the King’s feelings were not a lie. Some of it might’ve been how he used to feel at least.

And perhaps the behavior of the Queen towards Noelle is part of it. Wanting to assist Noelle. Especially, the lines in the weird route are interesting: “Noelle must rest, she has already awakened too much” and “My one idea to help Noelle failed”

The Queen wants Noelle to “Stab the earth… Creating our new supreme empire”. Knowing that it would make Noelle ‘happy’.

But the Queen is just a computer, “Perhaps my computation were miscalibrated.”

She does not realizes that the ‘searches’ do not reflect what a person truly wants, just like a computer she could only do the best she could with the data that was available to her.

So when Queen realizes this she instead says, “Disregard me and with your own power choose the world that makes you happy.”

Until we learn that there is actually a vital reason for not creating more darkness… The Roaring. (Also notice how magic is mentioned again? As something otherwordly?)

And Queen then brings us this beautiful line, just further proving the point that she had not the full picture in mind,

Considering the Queen didn’t know, the King must have not known either – or he wouldn’t say that Darkners would rule the world…when in truth an awful fate would await them. The Knight might’ve mislead the King…on purpose.

 12.The ultimate reason this theory falls apart: Presenting the glaring hole

My dear readers…if you’ve made it this far. Let me ask you one question.

 All I need is one answer.

 Here it goes…

 If Sans is a Darkner…

 THEN HOW THE HECK (HELL) IS HE ABLE TO WALK IN THE LIGHT WORLD.

WHY HAVE I NOT SEEN ANYONE QUESTION THIS.

Chapter 2, we see that Darkners are able to become items in your inventory.

We already kind of had this with Jevil (and now Spamton too). Anyway, when you take Lancer with you, Susie wonders where he went.

Darkners become real objects in the Light World that represent their form in the Dark World. Lancer and Rouxls Kaard become cards. The horsie npc, Mr. Society, and Ponman are chess pieces. Shawn is a plush doll.

If Sans is a Darkner, we wouldn’t be able to see him. At the end of Chapter 2, Susie even talks how she wants Lancer and Ralsei to be able to come to their world.

Darkners can’t physically be in the Light World.

Sans is a Lightner.

Yes, I know it’s disappointing. I believed into this theory too. I wanted too. But it doesn’t work.

Now, this doesn’t fully remove Sans’ connection with Darkners… Don’t worry, we still have the ‘shortcuts’. Though we don’t know if Sans uses them in this reality but it is one thing that links him back to maybe a possible history? Who knows? Right now Sans is still your average dude in DR. And it’s up to Toby to make him relevant or not to the story. I wouldn’t be mad if Sans just stayed…well, Sans. He doesn’t have any reason right now to play a major role in the cast – this isn’t the Underground. I kind of want Papyrus to take the limelight…but that’s only because I’m desperate for Papyrus-lore, and every day I go back to this masterpost, I feel myself slipping further into insanity.

 [Monster Biology, Monster Food, and Bathrooms – the dilemma of that ‘ketchup’]

When it comes to Sans ‘bleeding’ in his death cut-scene, we do have:

1.The “realistic” approach: In which bone marrow explains the production of blood cells and why Sans was able to bleed.

2.The “it was not real” approach: In which it was not blood but ketchup, and Sans wasn’t actually bleeding.

Which one is more accurate?

 If we go with approach two:

The whole ketchup joke comes once again back with Noelle referencing it.

Would Sans carry ketchup underneath his clothes for a joke? In this kind of serious situation? Well, Sans has no problem mocking you, telling you how you “suck at being evil” when you don’t go for an all-out genocide. His comments at every turn are either to piss you off (counting your deaths) or to make you feel guilty (friendship it’s really great, right?).

Monsters know humans are “mostly made out of water”. They have a book about it. And Sans is one of the monsters that can tell at a glance that you’re a human. Considering this knowledge and how smart Sans is: Sans must know about blood. So, wouldn’t it be really smart to ‘mimic’ a human’s death? Maybe seeing blood will give you pause? Maybe turning to dust was not relatable enough? So, why not make his death as shocking of a display as he can? Are you desensitized from the sight of blood?

 If we go with approach one:

Then we need to take a look back at monster biology. And the possibility of some monsters maybe having blood. One thing that is odd with Sans’ death cut-scene is how it looks like he is coughing up the ‘blood’ as it begins to pour down from his grin. Either this is really great acting or it just isn’t simply ketchup. (Plus, I’m really questioning how he managed to do that if it’s ketchup, but maybe I shouldn’t question magical skeletons that can sweat and are able to feel their legs get tired without any nerves, and then again, maybe, I should stop looking at them as ‘skeletons’ and instead view them  as ‘monsters’.)

(Papyrus is again the odd one out here. We don’t see any blood in his fight. But we can still argue it’s because we severed his head clean off from his body. (In fact, it’s amazing how much endurance he has by being able to survive as a head for a couple seconds. No other monster does this.))

 Here is what information Undertale provides us:

[While monsters are mostly made of magic, human beings are mostly made of water.]

An important indicator is ‘mostly’. As I feel like it gets often forgotten that monsters do have physical matter. They are not completely made out of magic. Alphys even says so.

[You see, unlike humans', monsters' bodies don't have enough... Physical matter to take those concentrations of "determination." Their bodies started to melt, and lost what physicality they had.]

The physical matter that gets left behind when a monster dies is their dust.

Undyne mentions, in a phone call, motion-sickness and how she had to hurl when she rode on a conveyor belt. She is also able to get a ‘heatstroke’. Monsters can sweat.

(And Papyrus isn’t even surprised, he is the one that asks the question. Maybe he’s seen Undyne do it before – but if not, does that mean Papyrus is also able to feel ‘sick’ too? Like when he states he ‘can’t feel his legs’ when you make him walk to the kitchen countless times. Implying he could before? Or was that a skeleton joke because they have no nerves? But then again, he gets electrocuted in the electric maze and gets mad, having probably felt the pain. And when Flowey holds him in a vine chokehold, he looks troubled too. This is where I differentiate between simply ‘skeletons’ and ‘skeleton monsters’ that clearly are able to feel certain things such as pain or discomfort.)

Toriel fatal sprite has what looks like some liquid coming out of her mouth? Might not mean much, might just be chunks falling off from her face, and in her next sprite (kneeling down) it’s gone again, so they didn’t make another separate sprite with that part missing…but I found it always a bit weird…

Monsters having blood or a liquid similar to blood must be a very, very rare trait, because it still gets linked back to humans.

(However, this sentence still makes sense with humans having a larger quantity of blood; so maybe having a bit of ‘blood/liquid’ and being made out of blood is different? Especially, if we go with the assumption that it’s an extremely rare trait and monsters probably don’t have as much with their lesser physical matter.

It’s a bit of a confusing question, honestly. Why does the monster kid associate blood with pain? Do they have something similar? So, they question if being made out of more than half of it makes it painful to live? Would be an admittedly funny misunderstanding.)

There are also big implications that Darkners do indeed bleed too.

I’m not really a fan of these two dialogues as they are a bit too ambiguous for my liking:

They both could point to monsters and Darkners just knowing the concept of blood. And nothing more. But here is where it gets interesting…

We have this (the best evidence probably):

(Hurts, doesn’t it?)

And if you look at the flavor text…(it is actually made out of blood.)

Mmm, blood! [When using it on Susie]

Aah, sticky... [When using it on Ralsei]

Mmm... what!? It's blood!? [When using it on Noelle]

(Ralsei’s reaction is…kinda really tame?? Is he used to eating blood?! Also Susie, what the heck? Though I usually dismiss her taste palate considering she eats chalk…and because both Susie and Kris like to eat moss… But apparently the blood donut tastes good?? Because Noelle seems to enjoy it until she realizes it’s blood??)

 We also have the King say this:

In Chapter 2 it’s revealed to be just a bluff because we learn from King Spades that Lancer is a “bouncy little pumpkin” and that he wouldn’t ‘splatter’ but just bounce off (implying that the King has done this before). But this sentence could also mean that if Lancer wasn’t ‘bouncy’ or if any other Darkner was in this position that they would indeed ‘splatter’ to the ground.

Additionally, there is Noelle the only character in the game right now (that has a fatal spell) that can kill Darkners. And what is really fascinating about that is: we can see what a Darkner’s death animation looks like [on normal enemies].

They turn red.

Before they vanish UT style.

This color could mean anything or nothing. It doesn’t confirm our suspicions outright…but the possibility…and that it is a very peculiar detail to note…are still present.

(I’m kind of already on the train that supports this notion. The blood donut is very sus.)

 [Monster Food – If it goes in…where does it go out?]

Remember how I said, we only have one example of a monster (Asgore) getting sick? Actually…

We have this getting mentioned twice. Once in DR and another time in the UT alarm clock app dialogue where Alphys mentions Catty ate her oranges, underneath her “heater”, and needed her stomach pumped. So, even in this world Doggo probably won’t know the beauty of a chocolate treat…

Anyway, monsters have stomachs, meaning monster poo is no more an illusion.

Yes, you heard me this was my plan all along: Convincing you that monster poo is real. (I’m kidding)

 We learn thanks to BigMouth’s words that monster food gets conserved perfectly into energy.

It makes sense that monsters like Papyrus who probably only eat monster food would not know what a toilet is or what its usage is.

However, monsters know about bathrooms and even use them…to well, wash up.

And although I have seen people dismiss and say that Alphys was lying about going to the bathroom because we see her go in the elevator that we later learn leads down to the True Lab. There is a bathtub down there. Thought I’m unsure if she uses that one.

I do think she actually has a private bathroom for herself on another floor that we just couldn’t access.

The elevator has multiple buttons.

And when you enter the elevator for the first time, the elevator loses its power, landing on what probably is the last floor. The True Lab.

Alphys loves human anime history and “culture”, it would make sense that at some point she wanted to try human cuisine too. What are the chances she has a toilet in her bathroom engineered by herself because she wanted to try human food?

I mean she has instant noodles in her refrigerator. Is it magical instant ramen or human instant ramen? It is interesting because we have mundane items like soda, potato chisps, chocolate, (I don’t count hot dogs because their description clearly tells us they’re not really “hot dogs”) etc. mentioned that are unclear if they are a monster food variant or human food. Then we have Papyrus’ spaghetti, his lasagna that he doesn’t cook anymore, Sans’ quiche pie, the pie Toriel baked… Especially, the first two are known dishes from the human kitchen – but clearly here it must be a monster food variant.

(Cinnamon Bunny, Crab Apple, Sea Tea, Monster Candy, Spider Donut…they all have an element of ‘fantasy’ in their name or description, and are sold by vendors…making them easily distinguishable as monster food).

(This is not the only time we find “human (inspired) food”.) The items in the garbage dump are human food not monster food.

This also kind of bursts the headcanon that monster food heals you because it is magical??

The astronaut food also heals your HP? (Monster live underground, some not knowing what even a star is.  So, how would they know what an “astronaut” is? It makes sense that you would recognize it and name the item accordingly). Plus, if it’s human food, it’s reasonable why no one touched the cooler.

Other pointers that counter this headcanon are:

The bandage becomes a healing item when you swap it for another armor. Please don’t tell me Frisk took a bite out of that…that’s gross.

Not only do food (of any kind) and first aid items heal you…

Sleeping does too. In the inn you can heal above your max HP.

At the end of the game you have this item in your inventory:

It makes sense a dream would heal you if sleep does. Anything that can give you strength/energy would be able to do so. [Determination/SAVE points].

Also, can I just say that temmie flakes isn’t even food?? It’s construction paper!! And it somehow heals – albeit for measly 2 HP, makes sense…you’re not supposed to eat paper after all…

 So, in conclusion there are monsters that have stomachs. Monsters that can sweat (which includes skeleton monsters?). Monsters that have a brain or heart as an organ?? (But hearts could be symbolically for souls also??)I mean if they have a stomach…that’s an organ??? So, other organs are a possibility?

Also what did Undyne vomit when she got sick? It couldn’t be food. Magical residue? Acids? The last one would actually explain that some monster do have some ‘liquids’ (not necessarily blood).

That’s as close as we get really with explaining that Sans was ‘bleeding’. (Or leaving liquids of some kind. I mean, Papyrus says Sans emits slime, it’s what brothers do, so, okay no bye—)

 Both are speculations, so take whatever approach you deem as more ‘accurate’.

 And I think this is where I will cut this short… I had wanted to go over some other points (more Deltarune-world related stuff) but I think that would be better for another separate post.

So, yeah… hope this was insightful and a refresher on UT lore. Especially, the ‘monster food is magic that’s why it heals you portion’ that one actually gave me whiplash myself…because I realized…that’s fanon…­ (_  _ ;)

I would love to hear what you think. Everyone has their own interpretation and opinion on these. So, if you agree or disagree – I would love to read why!

Thank you for reading!

[time-teller]

Watching a deltarune playthrough and im just gonna stick this here for later

I think Kris opened the dark world so that Undyne would take them seriously about the Dark World. We know Undyne doesnt take them seriously (laughing about it in chapter 2) and they knew Toriel would call her once seeing the tires Kris slashed. Another thing Kris did was leave the front door open, which if you're a police officer (or a competent one) you would check inside the house if the front door is open. And because the house is a dark world now, Undyne would be inside and finally take Kris' claims seriously.

And the reason for this being is because Dess was swallowed by a dark world. I dont remember who made this theory but it goes like this: Dess has been missing for a while, and Asgore was kicked from the police for for not finding her because Noel and Dess' mom is the mayor. We know someone is talking in the game's code and tried to talk to us through Spamton. Another thing is that Kris is scared of the bunker south of town. Maybe Dess got swallowed up by a dark world that was opened in the bunker and is why Kris keeps trying to tell Undyne about the dark worlds each chapter.

Also im tired of people saying this: Kris isnt the knight. It's a red flag because Queen literally tells them, Noelle, Berdley, and Susie how to make fountains. It also would make no sense for characters like King, Queen, and Seam to not recognize Kris being the knight since they've all interacted with him at some point. We also know that Kris cant walk far away from the soul or else they'll die (Spamton NEO) so it's not possible for them to walk all the way to the library and back at night AND eat the pie. So Kris having just eaten the pie and not made the fountain makes sense. Also, Noelle and Berdley were already studying in the computer lab when the fountain opened up because they had their notebooks open. Not only that, there's suspicious flavor text in the server closet mentioning it's big enough for someone to fit inside. The knight HAD to be in there when making the fountain. It also doesnt make sense for Kris to destroy the world when Asriel is coming home and they miss Asriel a lot.

This next part is more of a headcanon for now, but i think the Knight is the vessel we made at the start. I dont think Toby would make us go through that much effort and then not do anything with it, just look at what he did with the Thrash Machine.

[everysongineverykey]

I'M DONE. HERE. TAKE THESE CHAPTER 2 THOUGHTS AND RUN, BABY.

so i'll try to go in order here. uhhhh... there's a LOT i have to say. first: toriel giggling sprite my beloved

on that note, ALL THE NEW SUSIE SPRITES MY BELOVEDS

NOELLE YOU'RE SO GAY. I THINK THIS IS PROBABLY JUST BECAUSE I TOLD HER TO IN CHAPTER ONE BUT SHE GAVE SUSIE THE LUNCHBOX FULL OF CHALK!! I LOVE ITTTT

ralsei's, uh... kinda sus. the whole "recruiting" thing REALLY sketches me out. and he looks kinda... smug, all the time, like he knows what's going on.

LANCER JOINED! ROUXLS JOINED EVEN THOUGH NO ONE WANTED THAT! STARWALKER JOINED, TO EVERYONE'S JOY!

LIBRARY PORTALLLL

so before i entered the city there was that pre-city area? that looked very much like the city? except it had different music? and i thought they'd cut welcome to the city and i was SEVERELY disappointed. but then they didn't! just something i wanted to mention

NOELLE!!

throughout this game i went from despising berdly to feeling bad for him to not really liking him again, but not hating him as much as before. he'd better stay the fuck away from susie though

the queen is the best villain. she's the kind you love to hate! she's literally so funny AND her boss battle is actually tough (rip to the king but he just. wasn't a formidable enemy at all lol)

THE GANG CHARLIE BROWN DANCING TO WIN A FIGHT! SUSIE GAINING THE POWER TO ACT THROUGH SHEER FORCE OF WILL! SUSIE FORCING RALSEI TO LEARN TO ACT EVEN THOUGH HE DIDN'T WANT TO! THAT ENTIRE BATTLE WAS AMAZING! THE "BATTLE WON" END DANCING SEQUENCE! GOING INSANE GOING INSANE

the puzzles in this chapter were genuinely really impressive! i especially loved the word search puzzles and the ice-ee undertale word search reference💙

that being said. the mouse puzzles were SO fucking infuriating. i caused poor noelle a LOT of grief with those and i feel bad.

SPEAKING OF NOELLE!! the scene where she and kris are walking through the puzzle, the one that spells "december", and she's talking about when they were kids, how she loved sneaking out? beautiful. the cinnamon tography <3 also i guessed dess's full name was december a while ago and while i guess it was obvious, it's nice to have that confirmed!

also, i love that susie and ralsei are real friends in this chapter! he taught her a healing spell!!

ugh. fucking berdly. so smug and pretentious. i love queen's desire to be as far away from him as possible though

i also like his backstory. it gives his behavior, even if it's still annoying, at least some context. i get the feeling of feeling like if you're not smart, people will forget about you, and that's scary.

ALSO ALSO. GAMER BERDLY. LITERALLY EVERYTHING ABOUT THAT IS PERFECT. "I THOUGHT YOU WERE A GAMER!" "i only play mobile games, berdly." "NOOOOOO!" like i ADORE that

anyways. time for me to talk about the only thing that matters in this world: suselle. i mean, did the gays win in this chapter or DID THE GAYS WIN IN THIS CHAPTER?? THEY RODE A HEART-COVERED FERRIS WHEEL AND HAD A HEARTFELT, TENSION-FILLED CONVERSATION!

"did you ever wonder why the real susie never picked on you? well, maybe it's because... when you were both new to class, you lent her one of your pencils, like... maybe a dumb one with candy canes on it or something, and... even though it didn't actually taste like candy, she... remembered your smile." okay god thanks toby it's not like i needed my heart or anything

SERIOUSLY. TOBY "i'm gonna give the gays everything they want" FOX IS BACK WITH ANOTHER BANGER LADS

QUEEN'S BOSS BATTLE! ACTUALLY TOUGH, UNLIKE KING'S! AND GIGA QUEEN! I'M GOING INSANE THAT WAS SO SICK AND SO HARD

the way my heart BROKE when lancer turned to stone good god thank GOD our boy's okay

AND ROUXLS KAARD IN HIS PIRATE DUCK!! WITH HIS LITTLE HAT! DEMANDING THE QUEEN MAKE HIM BUTLER SUPREMETH! I LOVE HIM MORE THAN LIFE ITSELF

also!! kris and ralsei's little moment on the swan boat💙 i wasn't a kralsei shipper before but uh... that may be starting to change

it's hard because ralsei's still suspicious but at the same time i love him and want him to be happy. i don't know how to feel

also, if darkners outside of their dark worlds turn to stone after a while, why didn't ralsei? that's, uhhh... VERY sus. very weird. mr fox i need ANSWERS

WE FINALLY HAVE A WAY TO SAVE AFTER WE'VE FINISHED MOST OF THE EPILOGUE LADS. REJOICE!!

seriously the thing that peeved me about ch1 was that the last save point was on the battle stage and if i wanted to play the epilogue again, i had to. do that entire battle all over. BUT NOW THAT'S BEEN FIXED!!

UNDYNE AND ALPHYS HAVE MET UNDYNE AND ALPHYS HAVE MET THIS IS NOT A DRILL UNDYNE GAVE HER A BOX OF CANDIES EVERYBODY SHUT UP THEY'RE IN LOVE ALL IS RIGHT WITH THE WORLD

ALSO! NEAR THE BEGINNING! I FORGOT TO MENTION THE LITTLE WHITE DOG DOING DONUTS IN A TOY RACE CAR AND BACKING UP TRAFFIC! THANK YOU LITTLE WHITE DOG!

on that note: "looks like a car. this one has a man in it. he waves at you happily." AND THEN THE MAN'S GONE??? HEY TOBY???

ALSO. THE SEGMENT WHERE THE ANNOYING DOG HELPS US FIND THE KEY THROUGH THE POWER OF WANTON DESTRUCTION. THE BEST PLOT DEVICE!

TORIEL TEACHING SUSIE TO MAKE PIE STOP ITTTTT

and yes yes i KNOW kris slashed toriel's tires. that was extremely troubling. but THEY MADE PIE TOGETHER!!

"leave the chalk alone, kris" TORIEL!!

sans and toriel making egg puns and asgore running in and going "don't forget me, your eggs-husband!" is the FUNNIEST sitcom moment type thing ever. GOD.

on the other hand sans let me meet your brother god dammit i'll kill you

METTATONNNNNNN

RUDY... "who got you these flowers?" "is it weird for a married man to get flowers?" "so your wife did?" "oh, no! kris's dad did!" "...not even gonna try to understand this..." TOBY STOP ITTTT YOU'RE GIVING THE ASGORUDY SHIPPERS FALSE HOPE. YOU KNOW YOU'RE JUST GONNA KILL RUDY. YOU'RE JUST RUBBING SALT IN THE WOUND!

NUBERT! MY MAN!

seeing kris repeatedly they-themmed by multiple characters makes me so happy <3 poor kid... "college summer vacation when" "you opened the door with your eyes closed. you saw nothing" kris....

KRIS...

fucking. BLACK FOG STORM IN THE LIVING ROOM KRIS STOP IT. HOW'RE THEY GONNA REVEAL THIS WAS INNOCENT? THE KNIFE IN CHAPTER ONE WAS EASY BUT HOW WILL THEY EXPLAIN THIS

the staticy tv appearing in the dark and a toothy smile slowly fading into view in the center and lingering there ominously for far too long >>>>>>> every hollywood horror movie ever god. GOD

snowy and monster kid checking out the red door. implying there's something in there. something that kris knows about. knowing we won't get any more deltarune content for 5+ years does NOT fill me with determination

also. gaster's symbolic theme being mus_smile. and the final image in the game being a smile. god. gaster's COMING lads.

onionsan hears a song at night... a familiar song... memory, perhaps? or maybe a certain... four-note arpeggio that's hidden in a sound test room in undertale? who knows? guess we'll just have to wait for chapters 3/4/5.

this concludes my ramblings for now, but don't get it twisted- this is FAR from the last post i'll make about ch2. this whole chapter was absolutely amazing! brilliant! showstopping!! i'm genuinely soooo super impressed and excited for the chapter 3/4/5 bundle!!!

[metellastella]

In Honor of Deltarune Chapter 2, Lemme tell you about exactly HOW world-breaking Chara really was, and IS.

Here's the thing about Chara. It is implied that they are THE PLAYER's insatiable thirst for new video game worlds (or, they have latched onto it). As in, they accompany the player to the next world they go to.

Direct quote:

"HP. ATK. DEF. GOLD. EXP. LV. Every time a number increases, that feeling . . . That's me. Chara. Now, we have reached the absolute. There is nothing left for us here. Let us erase this pointless world, and move on to the next." i.e.: Let US move on to the next.

Every time THE PLAYER conquers and sets aside a new game . . . they have effectively DESTROYED it. Because they do not "exist" unless they are played and interacted with. Also, they only exist up until the end of the game anyway (most of the time)

And- I say usually- no matter how many times THE PLAYER plays a game- they will eventually tire of it. Also, if they play 500 games in their lifetime . . . it is unlikely they will re-play that many consistently. Plus, add on random internet "mini" games.

Now, that's only considering ONE player.

But since Chara is a multi-dimensional being, because they are aware of other worlds . . . it's not much of a stretch to say that the millions of people who are carrying around Chara "with" them count . . . as Chara.

Bill Cipher, from Gravity Falls, to my knowledge, despite his reality-warping godly demon powers, makes no such 4th wall shattering and domineering claim.

Let's assume for sanity's sake, that this current dimension you're sitting in and reading this screen on is the primary reality. There ARE no dimensions higher than this. All others are contained within human imagination. Bill Cipher was Created by a Creator.

All the 'lower' dimensions we can muck around in as basically gods. (gods or demigods either incarnate as weaklings, or come about some other way, in many mythologies, but then grow steadily stronger to realize their godhood. Ya know, Hercules. Krishna. In Hinduism. That sort of thing.) We can travel between dimensions on a whim by flipping a switch. With enough Determination, we can ALWAYS reach the end. Now, sometimes collaboration does expand these universes a little bit- through comics and fanfiction. But even these created 'higher spheres' nearer to this primary dimension, author 'omniscience' is taken as a given. Actually there is some debate about that, given the real-world phenomenon of novel writers in some cases having no clue where characters are taking them . . . they just sit down to write with a kernel of an idea. That's how I operate, for instance. In that case, they somehow have had their 'future sight' that should be default as a god, blocked. People who outline plots and know where they're going with a story beforehand, and then create characters to fill in the gaps, they're the type of 'gods' that could tell their characters future events, if they wanted to. Anyway. Back to video games specifically, and their fandoms. There is only so much CONTENT and it can always be recorded and shared. So there is still a limting factor.  Here's the weird thing about Undertale. You are there as a 'god.' Just as usual. That's nothing special. You're just there to muck around. But. The whole toe-curling horror aspect UT was demonstrating, for specific characters NPCs who realize this sobering fact . . . such as Asgore and Sans, they are driven to despair, mental instability, and in two cases, suicide, by the fact.

If Homestuck is considered a "game" that is destroyed once you reach the end? It is rolled into all of this as well.  Homestuck is a game. What evidence to I have of this, since it's a 'written story'? It has many playable elements and 90% of its lore and plot is based on deconstructing game conventions and sticking them back together in weird angled positions with crazy glue.  Therefore. If the player reads Homestuck after playing Undertale, (i.e., someone who is newer to internet culture, and entered it after Undertale came out, which was far after Homestuck) Chara has CANONICALLY destroyed the Homestuck Universe.  (or, if you re-read Homestuck after playing Undertale)

YOU. The PLAYER make or break all fictional characters. They live and die by your interest in them, or, for games, your direction, and no other character has explicitly taken YOUR control over the game, as Chara has. In Homestuck, it never gives you something to "do" and then takes the decision away from you, as Undertale does.

Chara, except for someone who has 100% control of that little dopamine rush that comes with leveling up (read: no one), is out there, gleefully wringing out, growing bored of, and then destroying hundreds of thousands of worlds. Chara is the first of zeir kind.  And possibly the last.  Or at least, anything that comes afterwards will be but a pale imitation.  Toby Fox is truly LEGENDARY, in this way.  I'm not sure even he fully understand what he's done here.  Let me try to explain this.  Our education system is currenlty ripping itself to pieces over back-breaking student loans and the realization that we don't actually need all these professors because of the easy availability of information on the internet (Demonstrated, in a roundabout way, in one or two deft lines of dialog in the movie A Beauriful Mind). Now, let's say colleges and universities do survive this shift in society, going foward. It's probable that at the very least technical colleges and vocational schools will. Any others, including high schools, will be replaced by students shrugging and just taking a G.E.D. certification, because why should they spend time at a high school if they hate it, or if they want to learn at their own individualized pace? No reason to do that at all. If the stuffy old guard of the outdated higher education system ever starts treating stories told by video games as literature, as they ABSOLUTELY SHOULD, because they're merely a different medium, not some weird separate thing . . . Toby Fox, having overturned the "trope" of the RPG "genre", wrecking and dismantling it so thouroughly that it has unsettled millions of people who ever again play an RPG where they slaughter any monsters for 'points.'  He should be immortalized. Just like any other author in history who has churned out a landmark piece of literature.  It's merely his fair due.  Perfectly logical, right?  He is the Ubermench game-changer. Literally.  I hope Sans appreciates the pun. Chara is the vehicle through which this overturning of the trope happens. Chara stares directly at the player, deconstructs a longstanding staple in the 'literary genre,' and gives a body and voice to the psychologically addictive quality of video games.

One estimate says there are more than 60,000 video games in existence. And millions of copies of each one.

Chara, as we've established canonically, has access to ALL that are played after a runthrough of Undertale. (or at the very least, genocide Undertale) In Hinduism, it is Shiva that is the god of destruction.  To quote Oppenheimer,  Chara has become Death, Destroyer of Worlds.  Checkmate.

Q. E. D.

Endgame.

[loathemetc]

Deltarune Theory: Something out of Place

It’s pretty well understood by now that everything in the Dark World is just something that was in the room at the time, either personified or turned into a place or thing in another way. 

When you go to the Dark World, your pencil becomes a sword. When you take Lancer and Rouxls to the Light World, they become a jack of spades and a rules card. Everything found in the Dark World is reasonably something that would be in that room in the Light World.

But there’s a couple of things found in the Dark World and taken back out to the Light World that don’t really seem like they belong in an old classroom used for storage, or in a computer lab. 

The Shadow Crystals and the eggs.

The Shadow Crystals are mysterious... Crystals that were in the possession of the secret bosses, people who’ve lost their marbles after contact with a mysterious man. According to Seam, these crystals can’t actually be seen, only their Shadow can. It’s unknown if Spamton even knew he had one, though Seam seems to imply Jevil did by saying he gave it to you. These crystals, when looked through, show the world for what it really is. They might also have some intrinsic connection to the Dark World they’re from, since using Chapter 2′s Shadow Crystal in Castle Town will still say you saw the computer lab looking through it but that might just be a programming oversight where Toby just assumed you’d check it right away.

When brought to the Light World, these crystals become shards of glass. That’s weird, isn’t it? Like, it seems like an obvious thing for the real world counterpart to an invisible fantasy world crystal to be, but... Why were there shards of glass in the old classroom and computer lab? Stranger still, the shards of glass still seem to have unexplained properties when used in the light world. Looking through them you’ll find Kris’s hand disappearing, or Susie glaring at you, even though those things aren’t really happening. It seems almost like these crystals were generated in the Dark World first, that being a crystal with strange powers is their true form, and only retroactively become shards of glass in the Light World.

And then there’s the eggs.

You move back and forth between specific rooms in the Dark World until you wrong warp into mysterious empty places with a single tree, with an unidentified man standing behind them, who hands you an egg, and then there is no longer a man here.

When taken to the Light World, the egg remains an egg. It doesn’t change like every other object that passes between the Light and Dark Worlds. This could be because an egg is a living thing, after all, all that happens to Lightners when they enter the Dark World is they get a cool outfit and color scheme change. But it does stand out as the only object not to change. You can also place these Eggs around Hometown, and these placements persist across save files. If you place an egg in Asgore’s fridge, boot up another save file, play through to the same spot, and put the egg in Asgore’s fridge again, both eggs will be there. Same for the third save file. The eggs have a lot of strange properties for such mundane objects. 

There’s no real conclusion to this, I just wanted to get people thinking about how out of place the shards of glass are in the rooms they come from, then I remembered the eggs were also out of place and it all kind of spiraled from there. There’s been a lot of posts speculating about the strange properties of these objects, but I haven’t seen anyone talk about how out of place they are in the old classroom and the computer lab, so hey, thought I would.

[squeiky]

!!!List of papyrus things!!!

(Update 3! mini update.)

For anyone who needs more info on the guy! Since you usually dont see alot of info about him!

A list of stuff thats just papyrus's tid bits i've collected overtime!

(Disclaimer: some things can be taken off of memory, though I did search most of the stuff up, so you dont have to worry too much. But if your feeling unsure, search it up! And correct me while your at it.)

his room doesn't play/have music.

(If you have reunited playing at enter his room, it'll disappear forever. Untill you go back and let it play again. Even without reunited, a song that plays no matter what room your in, doesn't play any music.)

Never takes off his battle body.

(According to sans, he only takes it off if he has no other choice too. Otherwise he'll just put clothes ontop of it, or just repaints it if needed. He does how ever, change his pants but never takes off the top.)

the minute "royal gaurd " is out of the picture, he's got nothing.

(It was the one thing he worked up for. When the royal gaurd disbands He says he "working hard on doing absolutely nothing". Then again this can be interpreted as papyrus does say he is working on something, despite not being a royal gaurd yet.)

He lies. (And can manipulate)

(Though he is really bad at lying, he seems to manipulate just fine, though its usually not out of malice. He gets undyne to befreind you by mentioning "challenge", which is a weakness of hers, since she never can turn down a challenge. And has lied about floweys name to her to. Has lied to sans or atleast mislead him about the things he knows about. Pretended he didn't know what a lab was during a call in hotland, but if you call him when sans isn't there, papyrus mentions the lab as if it was common knowledge instead of saying "Labrador-y?" As if he had no idea.)

Changes up his attacks

( if you get captured a few times, you see variation in his attacks. If you do it right, you can get him too skip half of his entire attack.)

Calls his own puzzles "Awful"

(This happens after battling papyrus, he says "WHO KNEW THAT ALL I NEEDED TO MAKE PALS... WAS TO GIVE PEOPLE AWFUL PUZZLES AND THEN FIGHT THEM??" This could be interpreted in many ways.)

Spikes, fire, traps, fencless bridges: are all safe for children, according to papyrus.

("EACH AREA HAS TO HAVE A PRECARIOUS BRIDGE" -bridge likely to collapse, dangerous. "ITS MANDATED BY THE GOVERNMENT. OF COURSE KING FLUFFYBOY WANTS TO UNMANDATE IT SAFER." "WHY?! WONT HE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!)

Has "talked" with asgore before.

(Sadly, asgore and papyrus has crossed paths. Asgore advises him not to but dangerous puzzles around town, for the children. Papyrus wants to put dangerous puzzles around town, for the children. This results in them bickering over saftey laws, with papyrus usually winning.)

Tried to start a flowey fan club

(On multiple occasions calls flowey "his best freind" and shows genuine love for the little guy. He even gave flowey a little red scarf to match his, during the 5th anniversary winter alarm clock.)

Has photo-graphic memory for phone calls.

-call in the room where undyne chased you. He seems nervous, or atleast stressed out during this call. I'll leave any and all interpretation to you.)

(Ps: papyrus has bad memory, but good photographic memory?)

His disliking for grease

(Says this during a call with undyne in grillby's place. Undyne says she loves grease, and he quickly dismisses his opinion in favor of hers. Of course, papyrus HAS visited grillbys before, as the dogamy and doggeressa mention him with sans. )

Calls alphys "great"

(During the first tile puzzle, he praises alphys by calling her "THE GREAT DR. ALPHYS" )

Knows about undynes crush on alphus

(He teases undyne a few times on this, leading to the "hot voice" and "audible wink" papyrus lines. He's not oblivious to the things around him, unless he chooses to be.)

Put limes in his eyes!

(Conversation in hotland! The guy thought limes where cucumbers and stuck them in his eyes. When. He thought it wasn't working he put more limes. It burned like hell but he says it was all to have "mettaton's bishoning eyes")

Knows about mtt's eyes

(Nobody seems to know that mettaton has eyes?! Undyne confirms this fact. Papyrus is the only one who outright mentions it.)

He got mettaton to do the tile puzzle thing

(FOR SOME UNEXPLAINED REASON- mettaton was the tile puzzle robot alphys built. The puzzle robot papyrus had during his own tile puzzle. Infact, during mettaton's tile puzzle in hotland, he says that you'd is this a few hundred rooms ago. If you call papyrus, he starts rambling on all the instructions again. Hehe.)

he likes dinosaur oatmeal

(According to the undertale tumblr, flowey response to "whats papyrus's favorite food?" Is DINOSAUR OATMEAL!! YAY!)

really enjoys mtt's show and mtt in general.

(and mtt even helped him with a tile puzzle)

enjoys cars

Owns a car bed

(Want to drive one)

really freaking artistic!

(Paints a whole bridge, makes a snowpapyrus, made his own costume/battle body, built a okay replica of a sentry station)

The red book on the table in the skelebro's house is infact his!

(For specifics, the quantum mechanics book with infinite books inside of it. It isn't specified who reads it, but both brothers should be capable as jokes and puns are not out of papyrus wardrobe.)

has his own shed and tools.

(Also known as "the punishment shed, doghouse, cpature zone, guest room, a garage" or undyne's pun which was "the coolshed". Ah, to be enriched by shed puns... Wonderful.)

tried to learn the "horoscope"

(Got "stumped" according to sans)

thinks junior jumble is harder than crossword

wants a 6 pairs of hot pants and 6 pairs of legs to wear those pants

has a dream of owning a shop where he just sells flames

(Call near in waterfall, near the turtle man shop.)

He's very influential

(If he's the only one killed in a neutral run, even without undyne, a revolution will still occur. Look into it yourself if need be.)

Called himself a genius

(During the instance, where he talks to you after turning the light on in sans's room.)

Can't really tell when someones mad

(He couldn't tell when undyne was mad at him during a call. He asks us too.)

Doesn't watch anime.

(He thinks its like cartoons for babies. Jokes around with undyne for awhile before taking it all back once he knew she watched anime.-during one of the calls.)

Brutal kind of guy

(He says this himself, i don't exactly know WHY he thinks this of himself, but he does.)

Bookworm

Owns a bookshelf

(He has a book Its where his vast dictionary comes from.

Knows about the time and space manipulation tactics sans uses.

(HE KNOWS- HE MENTIONS IT WHEN HE TURNS ON THE LIGHT IN SANS'S ROOM!!)

believes you can be a better person, if you just try.

(And he's right. Even if you kill him he still believes this, beacuse well.. Its true. Undyne wont forgive you and try to kill you, sans won't fight you, bht he's still right either way)

Knows about river person

(He asks about how river person is doing. No body seems to know about river person, and its unsure if undyne knows about their prescence.)

The days in his date scene (Monday, Tuesday, weekday, Thursday,e.c.t ) changes depending on your computer. Even though the date in undertale is always Monday.

(River person has a scheduled thing that matches up to your computer date as well, but this is about papyrus, not river person.)

Weird abilities

(Flying and super speedy twirling, flying backwards. He doesn't even hide it.)

He's pretty freaking tough!

(According to undyne, the person who defeated asgore.)

His "absolutely normal attack" is a giant cluster of bones.

(In theory, his attack could be the size of the entire area, including the giant bone at the end.)

Papyrus can lower the giant bone at the end of his "absolutely normal attack"

Has Collection of bones (or was planning to make one.)

(The room behind the sink was made for.. His attacks/bones. Before toby(dog)came in and made a shrine instead.)

Is annoying dog's favorite target.

Has a cannon, spears, fire thingy, and a dog at his disposal.

(Displayed during the bridge scene)

One persistent dude.

Likes to say "NYEHEHE!"

Has alot of MTT items.

Owns makeup!

(Mtt brand of course!)

Never dated anyone before.

(He says it himself.)

owns a dating manual

Not much of a sleeper.

(To the point where he just calls sleeping "naps" which aren't that long. He outright says he's always working, so he doesn't sleep.)

Dislikes hotland

dislikes hotland x2

Dislikes hotlands puzzles

Dislikes hotlands ethics.

Doesnt know much about hotland

(Says he knows it like the back of his hand!)

Says he never taken off his gloves, so he has no idea how his hands look like.

(He wears gloves or mittens on top of his gloves. And refuses to take it off, like his "battle body")

Calls hotland's steam puzzles garbage.

Dislikes hotlands conveyors

Thinks L1 and R2 stand for left and right

( Of course, it takes him awhile. He starts making puns, and tries to compare the words to pasta, and THEN comes to the conclusion that its left and right. Its Trail and error.-)

Knows about death.

(Said he wanted to meet death one time during a waterfall call.)

He pauses when speaking as a lost soul.

("I MUST CAPTURE A HUMAN! THEN EVERYONE WILL. ...." This is unusual as he is the only one that pauses. This can be interpreted, but it is rather interesting nonetheless)

Alright this is a bit more interpretive. Things may not be 100% facts down here.

Disclaimer: i will be putting "Interpretive" in red coloring for things that have may my interpretation or opinions in! Please do be mindful in your search, and take it with a grain of salt. It doesn't make it comepelty wrong, it has facts! Just muddled with oppinions.

Ready?

self-worth problems.

( can be called interpretive: He always feels very unimportant, as if he doesn't actually matter. During a call in waterfall, with the puddle hallway, papyrus talks about not letting it "get to you" or something along the lines of that. Since undyne speaks from her experience with the puddles, then i'd assume papyrus would too.)

(I think its just a sign of self doubt or insecurity. Someone once said its dysphoria, which is a cool headcannon for paps or something. What ever it is, he has some demons that he doesn't want to let out.)

Forgetable.

( according to the genocide description)

( Interpretive: Other than that, he's not even noticable. Though, there are a few people that appreciate him, most dont really acknowledge him. Unless you kill him of course!)

Sad/depressed?

( interpreitive as well:Before the human showed up, sans explains how his brother was feeling quite down lately. We see a.. Happier side of papyrus through out our journey.. He vents out to us, the player/human, about things he dislikes, or troubles he faces. Hes like a froggit. Life is hard for a froggit.)

Smiles through things.

("This is where I tried to capture you! What a bad memory." -quote he says as he smiles through it all. He does have a sad emote, but so far i have only seen it during a call in hotland, where the CORE was shown. As your adventure is coming close.. To an end.)

Uses his playful "OUCH!" emote when you straight up kill him. Instead of his hurting/in pain emote when flowey catches him off guard before absorbing everyonesones souls.

(The reason is unkown, but that emote is normally associated with more of "light taps." Examples are, toriel's fireballs at asgore and flowey. Unless... Cutting off his head was considered a "light tap" then, but flowey wrapping him in painful vines is considered more painful than getting his head chopped off and still having enough consciousness to joke about it.)

He knows his cooking sucks and that nobody likes it.

(He's not naive. He knows. He even says it. "Nobody has like my cooking before!" - QUOTE. This isn't some hidden fact. He's trying his best, "mabye next year, he might even make something edible." -sans quote.)

That was all the stuff i gathered for now.

Feel free to tell me anything i haven't added! :)

yeah, hes a pretty cool dude, ain't he?

(Edit: i've added some new things to the bunch, and fixed/deleted ome opinions or unrelated junk. Please, continue helping me add!)

[demo-dragon]

A new friend (Rebornplates one-shot)

Description: I'll be honest, I like seeing Flowey and Frisk as best friends as they look out for each other. And Flowey knows Frisk's true identity but doesn't mention it to them for their sake. Also, this takes place about one month after the Barrier was broken 

Handplates belong to @zarla-s

Rebornplates belongs to me

Undertale and characters belong to Toby fox and Temmie Chang

Flowey was alone in the old ruins as the sun rays peered down on him to give warmth. The golden flower had the option to go with Frisk and the others to the surface but chose not to join them since he didn't want to face the people he hurt during those endless resets. Flowey took a deep breath and sighed as he couldn't understand why Frisk showed him MERCY after they defeated him as the Photoshop Flowey despite everything he did to them during their journey in the Underground.

'I can't understand.' He thought to himself, 'why did they show me MERCY after all the things I've done to them...' While Flowey was still lost in thought, he heard footsteps from the dark corridor. He turned his head and saw Frisk coming toward him with a friendly expression on their face, and seeing them again made the soulless flower feel happy.

"Hello, Flowey," Frisk greeted with a smile. "Mind if I keep you company?" Flowey didn't say anything but nodded as he wanted someone like Frisk to keep him company even before Frisk fell to the cursed mountain. He always had Papyrus to look up to as he loved the guy throughout all the RESET, trying to find a way to break him Flowey will always like Papyrus and sees the funny skeleton as a friend too. The human sat beside him, grabbed their bag, and brought out a container with two plastic forks, and inside the container were two slices of their mother's famous mix-berry pie.

"My mom wanted me to give you a slice of her pie in case you were hungry," they explained to him as they handed him a slice along with a fork.

"That's nice of her, even though I don't know why you're here." He spoke as he took a bit of the pie. "Shouldn't you be at home, like making friends?" Frisk looks at Flowey and meekly smiles as they bite off their mother's pie.

"I already did." the human said as they were eating. "It's you, Flowey."

Flowey's eyes widened in shock, and he looked at the human as if they got hit in the head with something.

"W-what?" he asked, trying to process what Frisk had just said. "Frisk? Did you get hit by a ten-ton brick?" The teen chuckled as their new flower friend tried to comprehend all this. "No, why do you ask?" Frisk smiled as Flowey was getting annoyed with their cheeky attitude.

"Oh, I don't know, given that you said 'it's you, Flowey,'" he sarcastically answered as the flower looked away from Frisk. "Of all the humans and monsters in the world, why choose me as your friend? I did many horrible things to you, so why me?"

"I want to help you and let you know that you don't have to be alone just because you deserve to be left behind." They explained to him while he looked away from them. "...I also can see the real you; deep down, you want to be with everyone else up on the surface." Flowey did not say anything else, so they kept saying, "You made bad choices, but I vaguely remember something that someone once told me everyone can be a good person if they just try."

"...."

"Flowey, I know it's hard, but it saddens me to see you like this." They expressed in concerned for their friend. "I promise I will be there for you if you ever need someone to talk to."

Flowey looks back to Frisk and sighs in defeat.

"Oh, all right, fine," he spoke. "You've convinced me."

"R-really? Do you mean you'll-" Flowey cuts them off.

"If you promise me that you won't tell Toriel and Asgore who I truly am." He said firmly, "I don't want them to know, nor am I ready to tell them." Frisk understands his wishes with a smile.

"I promise," Frisk responded.

And from that moment on, Flowey and Frisk headed their way home as the golden flower wrapped his vines around his new friend's left arm as they continued to talk to each other, knowing their found friendship would last a lifetime.